Renovation Challenges and How to Avoid Them
Host:
This is the Home Remodeling Show, brought to you by Edge Construction. You can find them online at EdgeConstructionCompany.com. That is all one word, Edge Construction Company dot com.
It is a fantastic website. If you have not been there recently, check back often. Get on over there now. They are always updating EdgeConstructionCompany.com with recent projects. There are also links to Pinterest, Facebook, and Houzz. That is H-O-U-Z-Z.
Speaking of always updating, their social media sites are updated as well, and Houzz has a lot of great examples of the work and projects they have done at Edge Construction.
Just head over to EdgeConstructionCompany.com. If you are thinking about doing some remodeling, they would love to talk with you. All you have to do is pick up the phone and call 608-636-3343. That number is 636-EDGE.
Joining us this morning from Edge Construction is Mike Twohig. Mike, how are you doing this week?
Mike:
Great, Sean. Good to see you.
Host:
Good to see you. Have you gotten the bike out yet?
Mike:
I have not.
Host:
Really? I am shocked by that answer.
Mike:
The weather has not been that great until the last year.
Host:
That is true.
Mike:
I have to get going.
Host:
Are you going on a bike trip? I mean a pedal bike, the real bike, not something with a motor.
Are you heading out west this year?
Mike:
We are. We are going to Sturgis and riding around in South Dakota. Next year, we are planning a bigger trip to Wyoming with another couple. My wife is getting into that.
I was kind of shocked that you already have to reserve places for next summer out in Wyoming. I do not know what that is about. Maybe there are just not that many places to stay out there.
Host:
Funny story about Wyoming. Years ago, I took a three-month vacation and traveled. We were in Cheyenne, Wyoming, and I still remember it. There were tornadoes and storms. We were living in an RV, and my wife said, “I want to go home.”
Mike:
Did you see a rodeo?
Host:
We saw a lot of campfires and a lot of Bloody Marys. This was on a budget. We were in our twenties and very frugal at the time.
We are going to talk this week about home renovation challenges and, more importantly, how to avoid them.
But since we were talking about motorcycles and summer activities, one of the cool things about remodeling is that you can bring in a little bit of personality.
I had a friend whose parents had a Harley on display inside their house. It was a beautiful, giant house, and when you came into the main living area, they had a Harley displayed there.
Do you ever get projects like that?
Mike:
The closest would probably be golf-related.
We did a contoured putting green in a basement. Then, weirdly, years later, we remodeled that same house after another couple bought it. They wondered why there was a strange, undulating floor in the basement. It had been a putting green, and we took it out.
Host:
I am not a golfer, but I would love something like that. I think it would be kind of cool.
Mike:
It was interesting. Maybe a little frivolous as a use of space, and definitely a single-use space.
Host:
That is not exactly flex space.
Mike:
No, it is not.
Host:
That is really cool, though.
As we talk about fun and exciting projects, it is a great time to call Edge Construction. As the weather changes, we start thinking about cool things we can do around the house.
You can call Edge Construction at 608-636-3343. That number is 636-EDGE.
Mike, one of the renovation challenges on our list is supply chain shortages. Are we still experiencing that, or is it different now than what people might think of when they hear the word shortages?
Mike:
It is different than it was a few years ago.
Three, four, or five years ago, there was a three-year stretch that was really challenging. If we go back to the golden years before 2020, there were a lot of things we could get very quickly — meaning in a week or two. Tile, siding products, roofing materials, and other things were readily available.
I do not think we are ever going back to those times. Everything takes a little more planning now.
We just finished an addition about a month ago. The house had steel siding, so we had to match the steel siding and color. That was a six-week lead time. We were very careful with quantities and triple-checked everything to make sure we had enough, plus a little extra, to get through the job.
When we talk about supply chain shortages now, some of it is option-related.
Tile and flooring products are good examples. Up until about 15 years ago, there just were not as many options. A lot of tiles looked the same. A lot of the tiles we are tearing out now are beige 12-by-12 tiles with big grout lines. People did not always love the look, but it was what most people put in.
There was a lot of that tile around, and you could buy the same tile for 15 years.
Now the number of options has multiplied by a factor of a thousand, but products are not staying in production as long.
There are literally products that we will have in our showroom, and we try to keep all the samples current and available, but then we pick one during the selection process, try to order it immediately, and find out it is out of stock or not being made anymore.
Our system has evolved. If we are going to carry products in our showroom, we group products by style. We might have two or three with similar attributes, so if one falls into a category we cannot get readily, we have other ways to go.
Host:
With flooring or tile, are you usually leaving an extra box or two behind for the homeowner? If a tile breaks someday, they have the same one handy.
Mike:
Yes, we like to leave the homeowner with an extra box of tile, or close to it.
Sometimes it is more than that because there are suppliers who will take individual products back and credit us. In those cases, we can order by the square foot we actually need. They will give us extra in case we find broken tiles or manufacturing flaws, and then we can return some.
There is a certain kind of tile I call perfectly imperfect tile. It is a four-inch square tile, and you are not going to find two that are the same. I have it in my own shower at home, and I really like the look. It is not the traditional super-flat, perfect-surface tile. The edges kind of curl up when they fire them.
We have done several backsplashes and showers with this tile, and there are a lot of cool color options. But sometimes in manufacturing, they end up with little black spots. Some homeowners say, “I do not want black spots in my tile.”
That means we have to buy maybe twice as much tile as we need, go through every tile, and get approval. It raises the cost quite a bit, but if the homeowner is willing to do that, that is fine.
Now, we cannot expect the manufacturer to say, “You picked out the ones you liked, and now we will credit you for the rest.”
So there are still some supply chain challenges. It is much better than it was and improving every year, but that does not mean we can be asleep at the wheel.
Host:
One way Edge Construction overcomes those issues is with the showroom. Anybody who has visited the showroom knows it is a fairly large building with a lot of materials and samples.
That helps mitigate some of those issues because you have space to stage materials before construction starts.
Mike:
Right.
We stage everything before we start construction. We are not demoing and then saying, “We still have six months before the right tile shows up.”
Most of the time, we have things like tile choices before we start the job. We would rather get them in, make sure they are in good shape, confirm colors, confirm dye lots, and make sure things look right.
You do not want to completely unbox everything because you can damage materials in that process too, but we do want to verify what we have.
A lot of that space is display space. Our designers work hard to have current products in there, and not just current products, but current products that fit within budgets.
Sometimes you can get the same look for $5 a square foot in tile or $50 a square foot. We want to hit the budget too. That is an area where a designer can really help, but you need the display space to show and manage the different products.
Host:
I think most people understand that designers help with design, but they may not fully appreciate the knowledge base designers bring until they experience it.
Working with the designers at Edge Construction, someone might say, “If you like this style, it is available, but it may be pricier. If you want something with the same look but not this exact product, here is a really good alternative.”
Designers can help people achieve the same look and quality at a different price point or with better availability.
Mike:
Exactly.
That happens all the time during the design process. We bring homeowners in, they select products, and I call that the honeymoon phase. It is the fun part. We have not torn anything apart yet, and they have not written any checks yet.
Then we put everything together and start pricing. We reverse engineer it again. We price everything out, think about installation, and account for all the factors.
Then we come back with the total and try to get to contract.
Sometimes the homeowner says, “Is there any way we can trim a little bit?”
That is where good designers can look at different products and help. We just had a homeowner last week say, “We picked out a tile I really loved, but we were over budget. Your designers came back with something that saved a few thousand dollars, and we like this tile just as much — maybe better.”
Sometimes you get tunnel vision during selections. You get caught up in one product. But there is always a process of trying to rein in the budget while still maintaining the quality of the design.
Host:
I think of design versus construction. Builders are very precise: half inch, quarter inch, exact measurements. Designers have to be a little more fluid in their thinking.
I envy those people because I do not fully understand how they do it. They have that creative mind that can say, “You may not have thought about it this way, but look at what we can do.”
They can think outside the box and present homeowners with options they may not have considered.
Mike:
Exactly. We do not want designers to think like carpenters, and we do not want carpenters to think like designers.
When a carpenter gets handed a plan, we are looking for the problems and challenges of putting everything together. I sometimes think it must be nice to draw pretty pictures and then say, “Okay, you figure out how to make this work.”
It is not exactly like that, but designers need to not be encumbered by questions like, “Where is all the load going if we take out this wall?” or “How do we get mechanicals over here?”
I say all the time now that design needs to come first. That means coming up with a great design. It is almost never the case that we cannot figure out a way to get it done, even if it is difficult and we get annoyed.
It is a two-way street.
Host:
That is one of the great things about working with the designers and the team at Edge Construction.
When we talk about renovation challenges, the sheer volume of homes and projects you have worked on over the years matters. You have seen a lot of challenges, and there is almost always a solution. Having that experience is one of the great things about working with Edge Construction.
They would love to work with you. If you are thinking about remodeling, just pick up the phone and call 608-636-3343. That number is 636-EDGE.
Learn more online at EdgeConstructionCompany.com.
We will continue with the Edge Construction Home Remodeling Show next, right here on 1310 WIBA.
Host:
This is the Home Remodeling Show, brought to you by Edge Construction. You can find them online at EdgeConstructionCompany.com. That is all one word, Edge Construction Company dot com.
It is a great website and resource to learn more about Edge Construction. There are also great links to Pinterest, Facebook, and Houzz. Just head to EdgeConstructionCompany.com for those links.
Their telephone number is 608-636-3343. That number again is 636-EDGE.
We are talking about renovation challenges and, more importantly, how to avoid them.
Mike, when I think about Edge Construction, I think of the way you have a system in place for remodeling. There is a path, a guide, and clear steps along the way.
That has to help when life happens and challenges come up. Having that clear plan in place helps mitigate some of the issues that may arise.
Mike:
It does. It also helps to have the right people in place.
In our office, we have Samantha — Sam — one of our designers. She is the absolute right person to get things lined up, make sure the right products show up, and keep things organized. If you do not respond to her in a day, she is going to be following up.
You need people in place who are made for this. They need to marshal the forces.
It is one thing to come up with an idea, get through design, and hit the budget number. Then we have a contract. But that is when the work starts.
That is when things get ordered. That is when the permit process starts. That is when all the things that need to happen before we break ground or swing a sledgehammer begin.
Sometimes homeowners think, “Why aren’t they getting rolling? What is taking so long?”
But we cannot really order products until the contract is signed. The drive through design is to get to contract and get the job signed so we can order products, finalize plans, and do all the things that need to happen before work begins.
Host:
You mentioned permits. Let’s talk about the permitting process.
Mike:
After more than 30 years, you would think we would be better at this. It is not that we are not good at it. The line keeps moving.
When you apply for a permit in a smaller municipality, it is a different experience. In Madison and Dane County, a lot of it runs through Madison’s office.
We tease them, but they largely do a good job. It is just not always repeatable. Sometimes we get permits in two weeks, and sometimes it takes two, three, or four months.
On bigger projects, they may keep coming back with more questions. That is just to get through plan approval.
If we go to the City of Verona, we may talk to one of two people. Plan approval and the building permit may go through the same person. They might look at the plan and say, “Have you thought about this?” or “What are you going to do here?” Then we answer, and it is done.
It is not that way with bigger entities. They have to process a lot more. We are aware of that.
Sometimes there can be a permit delay that has nothing to do with us. We are providing all the information they want, but then we have to wait. We cannot write them a check for a permit until they give us the bill.
There are architectural firms in Madison now that have a lawyer on staff just to deal with plan approval. It can get pretty tough for the average person to get through the process if it is a complicated project.
Host:
As a homeowner, I think most of us assume that getting a building permit means going to City Hall, giving them $50 or $100, and they sign a little thing that you tape in the window. That is not how it works.
Mike:
Not at all.
It used to be much looser everywhere, and it probably needed to tighten up. But for us, and for anybody good at this who has been doing it a long time, we are not trying to defeat the process or cheat anything.
We generally overbuild so we do not get things called into question.
That is actually a great question to ask your remodeler: “How many red tags do you usually get?”
A red tag means you have the permit process, and at the end of it, you get your permit. But the inspector still has to come out. You are not done just because the permit is taped in the window.
The inspector comes out at different stages and looks things over. Sometimes they will make you do the math, and I am fine with that.
If they find something they do not like, they will red tag you. It can be something small.
We had a basement finish that is just about done, and we got a red tag on heating. It was from an existing low-voltage wire going to an upstairs thermostat. Somebody had cut through it in a couple of places long ago and poorly repaired it. It was not us, and it was not in our scope, so we did not even really notice it.
But our work got red tagged because of that thing.
It was an easy fix. Dale, our master electrician, replaced the wire so we could move forward. But something like that can happen.
Generally, we do not have big issues because we do a lot of engineering in-house. We know the load calculations for floors and roofs. We can figure things out with software or by opening the book and doing the calculations by hand.
Could I have done what we do now 30 years ago? No. But they were not making me do it then either.
I feel bad for people starting out because it is pretty tough.
Host:
Something just popped into my head. With condo associations, if you are doing work in a condo, is there an approval process there as well?
Mike:
There is.
They are not going to allow you to do anything that affects a common area or the outside of the building without approval. You cannot just say, “Can you put another window in there?” That has to go through a process, and it is probably going to be denied.
We have worked in several condo buildings downtown and on the lakes. We have one coming up in Sun Prairie in a building where we have worked a few times. It is always a challenge to work in those buildings.
There is a plan-approval-like process there too. Usually there is a board.
If you are doing something logical and updating your condo, it is in their interest for you to keep it modernized, so they are usually happy when you are doing that.
Host:
Do neighborhood covenants come into play with additions and those types of things?
Mike:
Yes.
Most newer neighborhoods, meaning probably the last 30 years or so, have some kind of approval process. They are protecting the neighborhood. They do not want the Minnesota Vikings house with purple and yellow decks going up next door and affecting property values.
If we are doing something on the outside, that matters. Inside, they largely do not care. But if you are expanding a driveway, doing an addition, screen porch, or deck, that usually has to go through their process.
We have found that it is not usually a tough process. You inundate them with paperwork and drawings so they can really see what is going on.
Some fancier neighborhoods, like Blackhawk or Sherwood, have boards that want approval for shingles, shingle color and quality, siding, windows, and anything else on the outside. We have to get approval.
It has never been a problem, though I think shingles may be a little too far. But you have to be aware of all of it.
Host:
Then there is historical review.
Mike:
You are talking to the chairman of the Edgerton committee.
Host:
You are a politician now. I forgot.
Mike:
Technically, I guess.
That is a whole other aspect. There are neighborhoods where it really makes sense to preserve the look. We have seen neighborhoods that look historic, and then suddenly a super-modern house goes up or something gets torn down and a house full of angles gets built. You think, “Really?”
There are benefits for people who own some historic houses, and sometimes those benefits mean dollars. They have a vested interest in maintaining their status as a historic house.
That means if you are putting in windows, you have to run it through the group and make sure it is okay. Siding types, colors, porch changes — those all need approval. If you are rebuilding a porch, it is supposed to look a certain way, and you need to replicate that.
Host:
Does Edgerton have any historic neighborhoods?
Mike:
We sure do.
Host:
Matter of fact, there is a newspaper behind you that talks about one of our recent ones.
As we talk about newer neighborhoods and the work Edge Construction does, I have to guess those neighborhoods are welcoming to you because of the quality of the work.
Mike:
I hope so.
There is nothing better than when we do something big in a neighborhood and the neighbors come over and say how worried they were when they first saw us pull up. Then, as the process went on, they watched it come together.
At the end, they say it is a relief that the project fits into the neighborhood and does not stand out like a sore thumb.
I understand that. You really do not know what you are getting when construction starts.
Host:
One thing that has come up on previous shows is that a lot of people contact you because their neighbors or someone in the neighborhood had work done by Edge Construction. That reputation speaks for itself.
We are talking this morning with Mike Twohig, owner of Edge Construction. You can find them online at EdgeConstructionCompany.com. That is all one word, Edge Construction Company dot com.
This week, we are talking about renovation challenges and, most importantly, how to avoid them.
We will continue our conversation with Mike Twohig of Edge Construction next as the Home Remodeling Show continues right here on 1310 WIBA.
Host:
This is the Home Remodeling Show, brought to you by Edge Construction. You can find them online at EdgeConstructionCompany.com. That is all one word, Edge Construction Company dot com.
It is a great website and resource if you are thinking about doing some remodeling.
Give them a call at 608-636-3343. That number is 636-EDGE.
We are talking about some of the challenges that come with renovation and, more importantly, how to avoid them.
A big part of what Edge Construction has done is find ways to avoid and mitigate common challenges with home renovation and remodeling.
Communication is one of the big ones. A big part of what you do at Edge Construction is having a system for communication. Knowing what A, B, and C are doing, and making sure the homeowner knows what A, B, and C are doing, is important.
Mike:
It is.
It is funny because we live in a world where your slightest thought can be communicated. I joke sometimes that we have too much communication.
I have a great group of people who do the work and designing and make everything happen. I always say that before they were all here, I was doing it.
Back then, every Friday I would have a little conference with the homeowner and explain what happened that week, what was probably going to happen the next week, and give them an idea of the schedule.
Unless something big happened, it was not that there was no communication between Fridays, but it was not daily. Maybe it was once or twice during the week.
The biggest complaint back then was not enough communication. Guess what the biggest complaint is now? Not enough communication.
And it is not just me. National remodeling studies show the same thing. Communication tends to be the issue that comes up.
I think it is because a lot of homeowners have jobs where, if they have a thought, they can fire it off. If you fire that off to someone on the job, a lot of times they cannot respond immediately.
If we are finishing a basement, the phone might have spotty coverage. If someone is setting tile, they cannot just drop everything, run upstairs, and see what the issue is.
We like to talk about it. If somebody is not getting back to you, that does not necessarily mean you should call or text five other people to try to get an answer. There needs to be an orderly process for communication.
From our standpoint, homeowners need to be honest with us. Can they live with the current level of communication, or do they need more? If they need more, we are going to try to accommodate them.
There is a younger group that seems to prefer less. They do not want to babysit the project. They want to start us on the job and leave it alone.
The biggest thing for me is that there is a lot of chance for conflict on a remodel. Homeowners may feel things are not going fast enough. They may not understand why something looks the way it does or what is happening next. They may have anxiety about pets, kids, noise, or neighbors.
There are a lot of things that can raise anxiety.
My advice is: do not let it build until it crosses some magical threshold where everybody is mad at each other. Nobody wants that. That is not how you get great work done.
I want our people to be happy at their jobs. They want to please homeowners and make them happy. If there are real problems, we need to talk about them. If there are concerns, maybe save a few up and address them together every couple of days.
There are different levels of communication for different people.
Host:
Is there something to be said for the design process and the amount of planning and preparation that happens before construction? That helps prepare the homeowner for what to expect, right?
Mike:
Yes, you can and should do all that. We do all that.
But here is the thing. Do you have people in your life who send emails that sound a little antagonistic?
Host:
Yes. My wife.
Her messages to me always make me think, “Wait, what?”
Mike:
She probably does not mean it that way.
When we feel the tension level rising, I always say to get in front of it and talk face to face. Sometimes text or email can be impersonal. Maybe you are in a rush when you respond. Maybe the homeowner was in a rush, or had a problem at work or with family when they reached out.
You add those things together, and miscommunication can happen. I am still in favor of picking up the phone and actually talking to somebody sometimes. There is less chance for misunderstanding.
Host:
I will get messages from my wife before she gets home, and I think, “Oh goodness, she is crabby.” Then when she gets home, I ask, “Everything okay today? Has everything calmed down?” She looks at me like, “What do you mean?”
It is just misinterpretation.
As we talk about communication and planning, the important thing is that if something is on your mind, bring it up.
I hope the team at Edge Construction knows this, but when the mics are off, you speak very highly of them. You talk about the great work they do and how they communicate with homeowners. That is an important aspect of what you do.
Mike:
It is important, but I also want to protect my employees’ free time a little bit.
In our Monday morning meeting, if a customer had a problem over the weekend, we will talk about it.
We had one recently where a smoke alarm was going off. One out of 10 or 20 of those might be faulty from the factory, and just to annoy everybody, it starts beeping.
This happened on a Friday around 5 or 6 p.m., and it continued through the weekend. On Monday, our people said they were getting texts starting Friday evening.
What I instruct them to do is text back and ask, “Is this an emergency? I am with my family.”
Most of the time, it is not an emergency. It is a minor concern.
If there is something like a smoke alarm beeping all weekend, let us know because we can tell you what to do. Reach up, pull it down, disconnect it, and no more beeping.
We all need to be considerate of each other.
Host:
A lot of times, messaging is simply a way to communicate, and sometimes it gets taken wrong. Then when everyone talks it through, it turns out it was not a big deal.
Mike:
I do not think anybody wants to go back to the old way of communication either.
Host:
We are talking this morning with Mike Twohig, owner of Edge Construction. The website is EdgeConstructionCompany.com. That is all one word, Edge Construction Company dot com.
Their telephone number is 608-636-3343. That number is 636-EDGE.
We will take it down the home stretch next as the Home Remodeling Show continues right here on 1310 WIBA.
Host:
This is the Home Remodeling Show, brought to you by Edge Construction. You can find them online at EdgeConstructionCompany.com. That is all one word, Edge Construction Company dot com.
Check out the website. If you are thinking about remodeling, give them a call at 608-636-3343. That number is 636-EDGE.
This week, we are talking about renovation challenges.
Mike, a lot of the things we have covered this week include some element of control. Mother Nature, though, plays by her own rules. You cannot control the weather, but you can plan for it.
Mike:
Yes.
Let’s talk about the kind of jobs where weather matters. When we are doing an addition, weather matters.
The most recent one was a master bedroom addition over a garage. We opened up the garage, took the garage roof off, and added a second floor. That one did not have finished space underneath us, so that gave us more flexibility. If it rains on a cement garage floor, we are not too worried.
There have been other projects where we took the roof off an existing finished house. That makes me much more nervous. We are watching the weather very carefully.
We know it takes us four or five days to get the roof back on — to get everything built, changed, and roofed again. That is actually very quick, but a lot has to happen in five days.
A lot of people think you can just throw a tarp up there and sleep at night. You really cannot. Tarps rip, they blow away, and water can get in. Water is stubborn and finds its path.
We are really careful with that.
I do not like doing those bigger jobs during the heart of winter. It is not that you cannot do them. We build new houses year-round, and that is not a big deal. But remodeling is different. If we are opening up the house, it is much harder.
So we limit additions and those types of remodels. We generally do them up to November or December. I am pretty stubborn about not starting something later than September. We do maybe three or four of those a year, and that is all weather-related.
The rest of the inside work does not matter.
Host:
We have touched on this on previous shows, especially when talking about additions. There is a step where you remove weatherproofing as you tie things together. There is a lot of planning that goes into that — not just checking the forecast, but also asking how quickly you can protect the finished space.
Mike:
Right. It is a real challenge for any remodeler. It is one of the risk factors that goes into bigger jobs.
There seem to be a lot more of those jobs over the last several years, and doing more of them has helped us get better at them. We have a lot of horsepower, and that helps a ton.
The last time we took the roof off a house and built up, we had a forecast that looked clear for about two weeks. I think we got the roof on in five days, and we still got about three inches of rain during those five days.
We did not have any major problems because of it, but I do remember being out there in a storm throwing tarps down and trying to protect everything.
It is a big challenge to get those junctions right.
Host:
We are talking this morning with Mike Twohig, owner of Edge Construction, about some of those challenges and how they overcome them. A lot of it has to do with planning.
If you are thinking about remodeling, they would love to talk with you. Pick up the phone and call 608-636-3343. That number is 636-EDGE.
The website is EdgeConstructionCompany.com.
Edge Construction brings you the Home Remodeling Show right here on 1310 WIBA.