Kitchen Remodeling Trends: Cabinets, Sustainability, Lighting, and Smart Design
Host:
This is the Home Remodeling Show, brought to you by Edge Construction. The website is EdgeConstructionCompany.com. That is all one word, Edge Construction Company dot com.
It is a great website and resource to learn more about Edge Construction. There are also links to Houzz, Pinterest, and Facebook, which are really good resources if you have been thinking about doing some remodeling.
All you have to do is pick up the phone and call Edge Construction at 608-636-3343. That number is 636-EDGE.
As the young folks say, it is always fun to peruse such a site. It is really cool to see the work they do at Edge Construction. The link to Houzz from EdgeConstructionCompany.com is also a fantastic resource.
Joining us this morning is the owner of Edge Construction, the one and only Mr. Mike Twohig. Mike, how are you doing this week?
Mike:
Good to see you.
Host:
I feel like we need another word that would go with that.
Have your grandkids used the term “skibidi” with you yet?
Mike:
No.
Host:
Or is that one I need to brush up on?
Apparently, my son Madison will say, “Skibidi sigma Ohio rizz,” which is short for charisma.
Mike:
It’s got rizz. All right, I get that. I am not sure about the other one.
Host:
That is the fun part. He has given me the words, but he has not clued me in.
My wife Christina will say, “Madison, last something,” and he will just say, “Skibidi Ohio,” and walk away. It is like, did she agree or disagree? Whatever that was.
Mike:
I should probably write these down.
Host:
You will hear them. You will definitely hear them.
It is good to see you.
As we work our way through summer and folks start looking ahead toward the holidays, entertaining comes into play. Company, guests, and people hanging out in the kitchen all become part of the conversation.
We are going to talk about some big-picture remodeling trends when it comes to kitchen remodels.
I saw some notes about colors for cabinetry, for example. There are a lot of white kitchens, but you mentioned stained cabinets are becoming popular again.
Mike:
Yes.
I have a white kitchen myself. We kind of got caught up in it. It is so easy to do a white kitchen, and I do not think that element is ever going away because it goes with everything.
White and black are hard to get wrong. If you are going to mix other colors, it gets a little tougher.
White painted cabinets have been around for a long time. If you go back 100 years, there were a lot of white kitchens.
Fast forward to a few years ago, and we started doing a lot more custom colors. If you look through our website and go to the kitchen portion of the portfolio page, you are going to see probably about a third white, a bunch of custom colors, and stained cabinets creeping back in.
Some people just call those wood cabinets. But our painted cabinets are also a really good-quality cabinet. They are maple underneath the paint.
You do not want to use a lesser wood under there just because nobody can see it. Maple is a good hardwood. It is stable, paints well, and is super smooth. There are a lot of advantages.
Host:
I have to ask you about that because I think one thing painted cabinets sometimes hide is what the materials are made of.
Working with you over the years and talking with you at Edge Construction, I know you think about how much abuse cabinets take, especially kitchen cabinets.
Just because the paint looks great, you still want to make sure what is underneath is solid. You also want the hardware and everything associated with those cabinets to be high-end, don’t you?
Mike:
You do.
Doing a really good job painting something like a cabinet is a complicated process. It is a two- or three-stage deal.
Budget-wise, painted cabinets are actually quite a bit more expensive. They can be 20 or 30 percent more, or even more if you get into custom colors. I think people are usually surprised by that.
They think the richness of wood is something you have to pay for. But that wood is underneath there, covered up. It is easier to do a stained cabinet, so our manufacturers can price those a little better.
I do not want to say stained cabinets are the budget option, because design always comes first. If somebody really wants something, we are not in the business of talking them out of it. We want to find ways for it to fit into the design.
I understand the move toward custom colors.
On our side, if we have done 10 white painted cabinet kitchens in a row, I do not want to say we get sick of it, but it is nice to do something different.
Then all of a sudden, the custom colors rolled in.
Maybe three years ago, we did an oak kitchen. I do not remember which one it was, but I remember how much I liked it when we were installing. It was dark, and those oak cabinets had a lot of flavor. They had a lot of grain showing through.
I thought, “Oh boy, I forgot how nice this is.”
We have one on the website from not too long ago. I think it was hickory, maybe rustic hickory or alder. It was actually in a log home, so that is probably why it was picked out. But it was really pretty.
A lot of times, stained cabinets can be really attractive.
Host:
I want to talk about that log cabin one in a minute.
When we talk about stained cabinets, are there veneers for that? Are there products like that out there? Not that you want to go with that, but I ask because I remember visiting a friend south of here years ago. He had recently had his kitchen done, and one cabinet was almost like a wall. It had a sticky plastic on it to make it look like wood.
I remember asking you about that at the time, and you said, “That is not a good thing.”
I am going to tell you, as a follow-up to that story, it did not hold up. Just like you projected.
Mike:
Durability is something we need to talk about.
I do not want to pick on the refacers. I think there is a place for that. One or two times a year, we will recommend something like that.
But in order to reface cabinets, you are still putting a fair amount of money into them. The idea is that you have a kitchen where maybe you do not like the style or the color and things are outdated, but everything is in extremely good shape.
Your hinges are in good shape. The cabinet doors are in good shape. The boxes are in good shape. Everything is in good shape, and you are going over the top of it with something.
You mentioned that families can be tough on kitchens. Usually, by the time you are ready to do something, the drawer glides are falling apart, the wear and tear is showing, and there are other issues.
I do want to talk about durability from the standpoint of painted versus stained.
If you have painted cabinets, you cannot be obsessive about having no imperfections. The problem is that when we order those cabinets and they come out of the factory, they have this really smooth, sprayed-on finish that was baked on in the facility. That finish is hard to replicate in the field.
We have gotten pretty good at doing repairs, but kitchens take abuse. Things are going to get dinged up. It is going to happen. It will happen to custom colors, and it will happen to painted cabinets.
With stained cabinets, I do think there is an advantage in durability. It is just not as noticeable. If you put a little scratch in it, maybe you can use a stain marker and hide 90 percent of it.
Even around a sink, where it is constantly getting wet and maybe the finish gets a little older, it is fairly easy to do a light sand and spray a new poly on top.
Durability is something you should think about. If you are going to be bothered by the tiniest little imperfection, maybe painted cabinets are not the way to go.
Host:
As somebody who is more than familiar with tiny imperfections, I just let it go.
As we talk about finding the right finish for the right lifestyle, is that part of the conversation with the designers?
As a homeowner, are you talking about the type of person you are, not just the look you want to achieve? Are you asking things like, “Do these little things bother you?” Maybe solid white cabinets are not the best design option for everyone, or at least you need to know what you are getting into.
Mike:
Right.
A good designer is going to take you through that process.
People fall in love with pictures they find online. We have had people look at the alder kitchen and say, “I want that,” and then not end up with it.
Maybe you follow through the whole design process and realize, “I really like that kitchen, but I do not have the right house for this.”
You do need a certain style to go with that.
When you talk about white versus custom colors, there is an advantage to white in durability because white is white. It is easier to repair versus a custom color.
When you paint over the top or try to repair something with a custom color, we call it flashing. That means if you are standing in the right light, maybe off to the side, you can see that little spot.
We are trying to avoid that stuff.
I do think people are much more careful with these cabinets. It is like a new car. You are not going to set a rock on top of a new car. You are going to take care of it.
Host:
It is interesting you call it flashing.
Years ago, I had a car that was in a fender bender, and they did the repairs. You learn a lot about paint. I had no idea.
My thinking was always that if you drive a maroon Chevy, they are all going to be the exact same color. They could pop that piece off, paint it, slap it back on, and it would look great.
But there are so many variations in color, time, and the environment the car has been in. Blending that stuff in is a real trick.
Mike:
It is a real trick.
I will give you a couple of paint terms. We just had one. The next one is sheen. Sheen is really important.
The painters who work for us are our guys. Anybody can go into the store and buy the same paint, but getting that finish is different. A lot of times, it is spraying it and then dulling it down to get the sheen to match.
I will give you another paint term now: skipper.
What do you think skipper means?
Host:
I have no idea. Even the other two I could have maybe guessed at, but skipper, no.
Mike:
If you and I are painting in a room and you miss a spot, I am going to say, “Hey, skipper, get over there and fix that spot.”
When you are painting with a roller, you skip a spot.
You can do this with your wife, by the way.
Host:
We talk a lot about electricians and carpenters and their different roles, but I do not think we have talked much about painters.
How does that work with Edge Construction? Do you work with specific crews?
Mike:
We have in-house painters, and it was probably one of the best decisions we made.
We have two very good painters who work for us.
I have been painting my whole life. I like painting. I am in this business where I get to work at it and perfect it, and it is embarrassing how much better they are than me.
If you have ever had your house get a really professional paint job, I think it makes as much difference in the look of your house as almost anything else.
Host:
There is a guy from This Old House who does painting. What is his name?
For folks who do not know, I just showed Mike a photo because we are both big fans of This Old House.
As we talk about paint, especially in areas like a kitchen where you really want a good job, people who know how to paint and have that skill are important. It is a real skill.
Mike:
It is a skill set you build over your whole career, just like carpentry or anything else.
When we start talking about products, our people and other professional painters get really specific.
We have talked about Sherwin-Williams before. We use about 80 percent Sherwin-Williams. There is a reason. There are six or eight different levels of paint in each category, and we have tried all of those.
There are reasons our people will pick one or the other, and they will notice when there is a formula change and start complaining.
A professional paint job is really worth it.
Anybody who has ever tried to paint on their own knows there are some pretty good painters, but it is different when you have somebody who is really good.
Host:
My wife has tried to get our oldest to paint. I wish I had a camera in the studio to show everyone your face. It does not often go well.
We are talking this morning with Mike Twohig of Edge Construction about big-picture kitchen remodeling trends.
We talked about cabinets and a little bit about painting. We will talk about more aspects of kitchen remodeling and some of the big-picture things to think about when it comes to your project.
If you have not been to the website yet, head over there now: EdgeConstructionCompany.com.
It is a great opportunity to take a look at some of the recent projects they have been working on.
Their telephone number is 608-636-3343. That number is 636-EDGE.
More of the Home Remodeling Show with Edge Construction is next here on 1310 WIBA.
Host:
This is the Home Remodeling Show, brought to you by Edge Construction. You can find them online at EdgeConstructionCompany.com. That is all one word, Edge Construction Company dot com.
Their telephone number is 608-636-3343. That number is 636-EDGE.
We are talking this week with Mike Twohig of Edge Construction about kitchen remodeling.
Before the break, we were talking about cabinets. Cabinets are one of those things you really want done right for a number of reasons.
You want them to last because you do not want to buy new cabinets again. But the other thing that is a bummer is that if they are not high-quality or well-built, they do not last as long, which means they often end up in the junk pile. That is not a great place for them.
The best thing is quality cabinets that are not going to end up in the landfill and that are also going to perform for a long time.
Sustainability is an important part of this.
Mike:
It is.
But what makes a product green?
We have talked about this a million times. To me, the greenest product in the world is a 100-year-old maple floor in a house in downtown Madison. We refinish those floors, and they have more than 100 years left in them.
How do you get greener than that? It was cut once, made once, and installed once. It does not have a green sticker on it.
You mentioned cabinets. Under the big umbrella of sustainability, you might say, “We can use recycled materials.” Particleboard can theoretically be a recycled material, or they will use what would otherwise be waste material.
I am not saying that is bad. I just do not love it in cabinets.
Very few cabinets do not have particleboard in them in some shape or form. MDF, medium-density fiberboard, has crept into manufacturers’ products in little waves.
We have tried to stay away from that stuff in our cabinets, but it is hard to get fully away from it. It is heavy and misbehaves around moisture. There are reasons not to use it.
The first thing to talk about with sustainability is longevity.
If you design a kitchen well, the chances are that more people are going to like it. Twenty or 30 years from now, the new owner may say, “I really like this kitchen. It was designed really well.” That is not a reason to get rid of it.
A certain percentage of the kitchens we do are perfectly serviceable kitchens that people just do not like.
The next step is how well the products are made.
If you are using a lower-end laminate floor, that is usually a 10- or 12-year floor. I do not think that is green. I do not care if it has a big stamp on the box. If it has to be replaced in 10 or 12 years, that is not green.
Stone countertops are a product that will last a long time. That is part of the sustainability conversation too.
Host:
It is interesting to think about the importance of design.
A lot of times, we think of sustainability only in terms of what these things are made of. The reality is that something can be made from the greatest materials, but if it is not designed well or does not have that thought behind it, it may be perfectly serviceable but still get removed later.
In 30 years, if that remodel was not well-planned and well-designed, somebody may come in and say, “Everything here is great, but it does not function.”
Mike:
Right.
If you have a poorly designed kitchen and a really well-designed kitchen, the materials are kind of the same. You are not necessarily spending less money on the materials.
It is good to put thought and effort into the design.
Host:
One of the notes I saw talked about some choices for kitchen renovations, including VOC-free paints and finishes.
Are people requesting that?
Mike:
Yes. Volatile organic compounds.
I think it is something everybody is aware of, and luckily, manufacturers have been aware of it too.
There are not a lot of VOCs in the products we use now. That has really changed over the years.
The paints, polys, and stains have changed. We do not use the oil-based stuff anymore. The products are just not as harsh.
Manufacturers have found ways to make good-quality products and use low-VOC materials.
That has bled into other areas too. In fact, you might get more VOCs off something like the plywood underneath your floor than you would off a flooring choice now because there are glues and binders that put that stuff together. In theory, that takes a certain amount of time to bleed off.
But those are often water-based products now too, so it has become less of a problem.
There are people who are very sensitive to VOCs, and they will want to know what level we are using and whether there are alternatives.
Sometimes that is their choice. If you want to use what I would call an inferior product — something that might not last as long — because it has lower VOCs and you are sensitive, that is a choice you have to make.
Host:
When I was younger, we had our carpet redone in our house, and I remember that strong chemical smell. I still love that smell, Mike.
Mike:
New car smell.
Host:
Exactly.
It is good to hear that manufacturing has changed. I do not know if it is regulated, but the consumer has regulated these things.
Mike:
Yes, that is more important now, and people do not want to deal with it.
Host:
We are talking this morning with Mike Twohig, owner of Edge Construction.
If you are thinking about starting that conversation, pick up the phone and call 608-636-3343. That number is 636-EDGE.
The website is EdgeConstructionCompany.com. That is all one word, Edge Construction Company dot com.
We continue our conversation with Mike Twohig next as the Home Remodeling Show with Edge Construction continues right here on 1310 WIBA.
Host:
This is the Home Remodeling Show, brought to you by Edge Construction. The website is EdgeConstructionCompany.com. That is all one word, Edge Construction Company dot com.
Head on over there because we are definitely going to talk about some recent projects at Edge Construction.
Again, the website is EdgeConstructionCompany.com. You can play along at home.
While you are there, check out the links to Pinterest, Facebook, and especially Houzz. There is a really cool portfolio there, and you can see a lot of projects on Houzz from EdgeConstructionCompany.com.
Their telephone number is 608-636-3343. That number is 636-EDGE.
We are talking about kitchen remodels and some of the big-picture stuff.
I was telling you during the break, and this is not a joke, one of my favorite topics is lighting — whether it is kitchens or any room, but especially kitchens.
Lighting has fascinated me from the first time you ever brought up how important it is to a remodel. It is a very important aspect of any remodeling job, isn’t it?
Mike:
It is.
It is really weird. We do a lot for builders in Dane County. That is another side of our company. We do interior trim and frame a bunch of houses for them.
I am always shocked that they are not putting enough lighting even in new houses.
When we go back into houses that are five years old or relatively brand new, we are adding lighting. I think, “What are you doing here? We have the technology to do this.”
There is this new thing called LED. I do not know if you have heard of it.
Host:
I have heard something about these LEDs.
Mike:
You have known more about LED lighting, especially early in our relationship, because you had them in your house already.
Host:
I was an early adopter for all the reasons we see. They are amazingly efficient, low voltage, and all the stuff I love about them.
When you mentioned some newer homes not providing enough lighting options or enough light, the great thing about light is you can always scale it back by turning a knob or sliding down a fader.
That is one of the very few design decisions that you can alter very easily as time goes forward.
Mike:
Yes.
From our side, we think of lighting in layers.
We talk about LED, and we have to figure out a different name for what we call can lights. They look like recessed lights, but they are not really cans. They are LED lights.
The big advantage is that the whole bottom of that fixture is the bulb. It gives you a really wide cone and spreads out nicely, so you do not end up with dead spots of light.
Our starting point now is that we want to daylight these spaces, especially common areas like kitchens, bathrooms, and great rooms. We want to be able to light the heck out of them.
When we first made the transition to these types of light fixtures for background lighting, maybe six or seven years ago, the dimming was following along behind but was not great. We had complaints that the lights were flickering. It was not really the fixture. It was the dimmer.
That has been solved now for four or five years. We put them everywhere, and we put dimmers in, like you said, so people can control the lighting.
Nobody wants daylight all the time. It is not like you are rebuilding a motor in your living room or operating on your kids. Being able to control it is really important.
Host:
I have heard can lights and then something called pan lights. Is that the term?
Mike:
Probably not. But after today, people may know what we are talking about.
Host:
The other thing with LED lighting is color temperature.
I think a lot of people hear LED and think of those early blue, harsh lights. That is not the case anymore.
Mike:
If you really like that blue, you are insane.
I remember my wife bringing home bulbs and saying, “I am sick of buying bulbs.” We had the curly cue CFL bulbs, and those were kind of annoying. Then she brought home the first LEDs, and they were that blue color.
I felt like somebody was hitting me in the head with a hammer when we put them in. It was not going to work.
Now you can pick your flavor. You can pick daylight, intensity, and color.
Some of those pan lights have a little transformer. LED operates off a transformer. It converts the power coming to the light into something usable for that fixture and dulls it down.
You can have a switch on those little transformers and change the intensity or color of the light. It is not like flicking a wall switch. You have to pull the fixture down and reach up to adjust your transformer. But I think it is pretty cool.
It is an upgraded fixture. We have people who are tech-savvy and request this. It is not as rare as you might think.
Most people pick something like daylight, maybe 3,000 lumens, and then they control it from there.
The advantage of how much power LED uses gets overlooked. People think, “I do not want to have to change bulbs for 20,000 hours,” and that may be true. We have not gotten there yet, but I have no reason to believe it is not true.
Before LED, when we were doing a kitchen remodel, I would say we would need two or three new circuits up to that kitchen. That means we had to get home runs from the panel all the way to the kitchen, and that can be a real pain.
With LED, I do not want to say they use no electricity, but it is almost like that. We can put a lot more on a circuit with no danger because it just does not use that much power. They also do not create the heat like some of the older lights did.
There are not many drawbacks.
Host:
Some of that plays into design.
Back in the day, whether it was compact fluorescent or incandescent before that, you did not really want a light to be on 24/7. It sounds almost wasteful to say it, but with LEDs, there are more options.
Maybe you get up in the middle of the night for a midnight snack, and you want a light that is just on enough to light the floor so you can see where you are going. Under-cabinet lighting is not as crazy as it used to be.
Mike:
If your dad would have heard that, he would be standing right now because he still would not be able to sit.
Host:
Who left the kitchen lights on?
Mike:
Exactly.
We have a lot of customers and homeowners who say they have found the under-cabinet lighting very useful. That is LED too.
We put dimmers on that also, and you can have a low level of light. It is nice. It is kind of a safety issue. When you get used to it, you really appreciate it.
That is what we do at our house, and I really like it too.
Host:
Again, you mentioned dads. To this day, even though we have LED everything, if my son leaves a light on, I still have to give him a hard time.
We are talking this morning with Mike Twohig, owner of Edge Construction. The website is EdgeConstructionCompany.com.
We are going to talk about some recent projects in just a moment.
If you are thinking about remodeling, just pick up the phone and call 608-636-3343. That number is 636-EDGE. Easy to remember: 636-EDGE.
More of the Home Remodeling Show is next here on 1310 WIBA.
Host:
This is the Home Remodeling Show, brought to you by Edge Construction. You can find them online at EdgeConstructionCompany.com. That is all one word, Edge Construction Company dot com.
It is a great website and resource to learn more about Edge Construction.
We are going to talk about a recent remodeling project: the Log Cabin Main Level Remodel. Check that out at EdgeConstructionCompany.com.
Their telephone number is 608-636-3343. That number is 636-EDGE.
Before we wrap up and get to that really cool kitchen, because I think it ties into a lot of what we talked about today, what typically gets people to say, “Now is the time to remodel a kitchen?”
Is it the upcoming holidays with visitors? Is it that they just cannot take it anymore? What is it?
Mike:
It is everything from tires on trucks, right? They go bald, and you have to replace them.
Kitchens last a long time. Those big-ticket items — kitchens and bathrooms — sometimes get left under-remodeled for a little too long.
Sometimes it is just, “I am sick of looking at it,” or “It does not serve my family.”
We have worked for people who are fantastic cooks. I married one of them. They are pretty specific about what they like and what they want.
Then you have the last group that drives a lot of remodeling: the entertainers.
So much happens in the kitchen. It is a natural place to congregate. When it is not working well for that, it is a problem.
I am also shocked sometimes how flooring going bad can spur you to look at other things too. There could be a myriad of reasons.
Host:
You mentioned congregation.
When you are meeting with the designer, is that part of the process? Are you looking at where people are going to be sitting or standing and the flow of that space — not just the workflow, but the entertainment flow?
Mike:
Yes, absolutely.
It depends on the house. If you have a smaller house and there is only room for a galley kitchen, there are still things we can do.
The designers will talk you through that, and we will figure out ways to open it up and make areas for people to congregate.
When we are designing, that is a lot of our thought process. Whether it is a lower level, great room, common area, or even the backyard, we are looking for areas where people can congregate.
The kitchen has become central to that.
Many times, homeowners say, “We want an island, we have three kids, and we need room for five.” That might be the biggest thing.
A lot more goes into it than that, but it may be the start of the process.
Host:
We are talking this morning with Mike Twohig, owner of Edge Construction.
If you are thinking about remodeling, call 608-636-3343. That number is 636-EDGE.
The website is EdgeConstructionCompany.com. That is Edge Construction Company dot com.
We are talking about kitchens, and one project I have been looking at for a couple of weeks is the Log Cabin Main Level Remodel. I had a million things I wanted to ask you about.
It is such a cool project: a log cabin main-level remodel with a kitchen, bathroom, and some other spaces.
One thing I noticed recently is over the stove. Is that a shelf? It is a really cool decorative piece. What is that, and what led to it?
Mike:
That is actually an option from our new friends up north at Great Northern. They are probably our newest supplier. We have been with them a couple of years, and they have taken over a fair amount of our cabinet work.
This is something they offer as a place to put spices and things while you are cooking.
There is a wood cabinet with a fan in it over the stove, a couple of doors up there, and a little shelf built out. That all came from the manufacturer.
They are a very cool cabinet company up in northern Wisconsin. Rib Lake is, I think, on the moon or something.
I was there once. I had to take a plane.
It is not that bad, but they do a beautiful job making cabinets.
One thing I really like about them is that so many cabinet companies now are basically someone at a computer putting things in, and the assembly line takes off. CAD drawings import into the CNC machines.
With Great Northern, there is a lot of hands-on work.
When eight people touch that cabinet on the way out, they are going to notice if something is wrong. They are going to notice if something is missing.
There is more craftsmanship involved.
Host:
This project had the kitchen and bathroom done as part of it. Was the lower level also involved?
Mike:
We did a whole bunch of stuff in this house.
When you see the before-and-after photos, it is hard to tell if you are in the same place.
We did flooring on all levels. Log houses are cool, but they are almost always a little weird.
There is a bedroom behind this kitchen and a laundry room behind this kitchen, and I do not think the pictures do justice to what we did in those two rooms.
There was also a bathroom, like you mentioned. It was a small bathroom, but it turned out great.
The laundry was really unique. It stretched the length of the kitchen right behind the stove. I am sure the pictures are on the website somewhere. There was a lot of work we did in that kitchen.
Host:
With modern appliances and the way things are stacked, it is a really efficient use of space, and it is a really nice space as well.
Definitely check that project out at EdgeConstructionCompany.com. It is the Log Cabin Main Level Remodel.
Whether you are thinking about remodeling your log cabin, getting a more rustic look, going more modern, or just saying, “This space is not working for us anymore,” it is a great day to call Mike and the team at Edge Construction.
Their telephone number is 608-636-3343. That number is 636-EDGE.
Edge Construction brings you the Home Remodeling Show right here on 1310 WIBA.