Host: Joining us in the studio this morning is Mike of Edge Construction. Mike, how are you doing this week? Mike: Sean, I feel like one of these years we should do a pre-show recording where we solve all the problems of the world before we go on the air. Host: I like that idea. We have a great topic this week—some remodeling do’s and don’ts, and ways homeowners can help a renovation go more smoothly. Mike: Yeah, I was thinking about it from two sides. First, how does a homeowner get the best result out of a remodeler? Second, when you have really good tradespeople involved, you also want to make sure you are not making life miserable for them. We work hard to keep great contractors around because they do fantastic work, they are budget-conscious, and the results are worth it. Host: One of the great things about Edge Construction is that you have a system in place that is really designed to get the best result. You have structure, a process, and planning so everyone is on the same page before work begins. Mike: Exactly. We call everything from the first meeting to the contract the design process. That whole phase is there to write the book before construction starts. Whether it is a ten-thousand-dollar job or a much larger one, it is always a lot of money, and you want to make decisions that are going to serve you well. You do not want to rush through that. The contrast is the home-building process, which is often much faster. Homeowners who have been through that once sometimes expect remodeling to move the same way, but the feedback on that fast process is not always good. It gets people into a house quickly, but there are often regrets. We replace a lot of builder-grade work, and to me that is a waste of resources. Host: A lot of times people move into a place and everything seems fine on day one, but then they start noticing the weak spots pretty quickly. And indecision is fine during planning—that is exactly when you should be thinking through options. Once work has started, that is not really the time to be dithering over ideas. Mike: Right. A good remodeler can help by saying there is a whole host of products we are simply not going to use. I have a good friend who bought a spec house from a local builder five or six years ago. The carpet is worn out, especially on the stairs and in the traffic areas. Three windows no longer operate. Some LVT flooring is coming apart at the joints. The builder told them those were standard products. As a homeowner, you are not expected to know everything about products. You have to trust us a little when we say we are not going to use a certain product. Yes, something better might cost more, but you are going to be happier in the long run. If you replace carpet in five years, you are going to wonder why somebody sold you that in the first place. Host: It is interesting too, because people often think about builder-grade faucets or flooring, but not always carpet. There has definitely been a move away from carpet, and maybe part of that is because people have had bad experiences with cheap carpet and assume all carpet wears out quickly. Mike: Exactly. That is not really true. There are some great carpet products out there that last a long time if you take care of them. But the marketplace gets shaped by those cheap builder-grade products. We are fortunate in that we get to shop products and say, “We are not going to put that in.” There is a market for very budget-friendly products that solve an immediate problem, and I understand that, but I really want to offer products I can stand behind and believe in. Host: And that fits with who your clients are too. Someone calling Edge Construction to remodel a home is usually looking for better quality finishes and better long-term results. Mike: I think so. We do get asked to bid things like rental properties downtown, and that is a different situation. If it is a rental, the owner often is not going to stick their neck out for a high-end product because they assume a tenant may ruin it anyway. But when it comes to a remodel for someone living in the house, sometimes the conversation is a little like a parent telling a kid to eat something good for them. A remodeler may have to say, “I have been burned by that product before. I am not going to use it. This other option is better for you in the long run.” You may not love hearing it in the moment, but you will probably be thankful later. Host: That reminds me of that project you recently finished where a former rental was converted back into a real home. It is a great example of somebody saying, “We want to get rid of the rental-grade choices and make this place truly livable.” Mike: Exactly. That is the Vibrant Haven project on our website. It had been a rental for a long time and was really abused. The before photos do not even fully do it justice. We did not have the budget to make the entire house like new from top to bottom, but the areas we touched we did properly. Two sisters bought it, and they had enough budget to create two nice bedroom suites, get rid of the upstairs kitchen, and make the house come together again. They did a lot of painting and elbow grease themselves too. The kitchen changed dramatically. It was still a galley kitchen, but a long one, and we had to work around beams because of the loads coming down from other parts of the house. We got creative, but there was a reason for every move. Host: Another really important point is that once a project begins, the faster and more steadily it moves, the better. Delays and last-minute decisions can add cost and create stress. Mike: They can, although homeowners do occasionally make a change after we start and that is okay. We recently had a homeowner pause a paint color after seeing it go on the wall. They wanted a little time to think, ended up choosing a different color, and it was a good change. We are not opposed to that. We want people to be happy. But those moments are pretty rare. The designers do such a good job helping homeowners through the process that we do not see major changes very often. Where we do see more trouble is when decisions are delayed because of allowances. Host: Allowances are a really good thing to talk about. Mike: They were very common when I started in construction. A remodeler wants to get into action, so they put in allowances for cabinets, countertops, flooring, and other finishes. The problem is that it becomes piecemeal design. You pick cabinets now, maybe counters later, flooring after that. From a design standpoint, that is not ideal. We want homeowners choosing those finishes together so they can see how they all work with one another. Another big reason not to do it that way is stress. People underestimate how stressful it is to have strangers in your home tearing apart a space you love. Making design decisions while all of that is happening is hard. Host: It is like trying to build the boat after you have already started sailing. And if you feel rushed because work is already underway, you probably are not going to make the best decisions. Mike: Exactly. During design, a homeowner might be torn between three countertop options. Our designers will often say, “Take those samples home. Look at them in your light, in your house, without us hovering over you.” A lot of times that helps people eliminate one right away. Sometimes something looks great in the showroom and then ridiculous at home. That is why giving yourself time matters. Host: And it seems like there is another piece to this too, which is communication during the job. Questions will come up, of course, but there has to be some structure to that communication so the work can keep moving. Mike: Absolutely. We live in an instant world now. A homeowner can text a thought the second they have it. And since COVID, more homeowners are around the house during the day, so they see the project at stages they might not have seen before. At lunch, something may look odd or unfinished, even though by the end of the day it will make perfect sense. So there are more questions, which we understand. But if Mike were king—and I am not, not even at my own company—I would say let those questions come in, and I will answer them in an orderly way, maybe tomorrow morning before I get rolling. I was with one of our guys this week and his phone was blowing up from a homeowner while we were framing overhead. I said, “Just text back and ask if it is an emergency.” The homeowner said no, and our guy replied that he would call later. I thought that was a very healthy way to handle it. Host: Some people hear that and think, “Well, I want an answer right now,” but there are times when it is not even safe for someone to stop what they are doing and take a call. Mike: Exactly. Sometimes those thoughts need to marinate a little. Years ago, before all this instant communication, homeowners probably had plenty of questions during the week, but by Friday, when we got together and talked things through, some of those worries had already faded. Now we sometimes have what I jokingly call overcommunication. And yes, if there is an emergency—if something is leaking or smoking or clearly going wrong—call right away. But most things are not that urgent, and it is better if there is an understood system for communication. Host: That kind of orderly communication also ties right back to the value of planning up front. The more the homeowner understands ahead of time, the less confusion there is once work is happening. Mike: Exactly. A good designer helps set up the construction side well, and whoever is running the job can establish expectations early. If something is an emergency, reach out immediately. If it is not, we can handle it in the normal flow of communication. Host: Another really honest part of this conversation is that sometimes the best advice a contractor can give is, “Do not put lipstick on a pig.” Not every house or every existing feature is worth saving. Mike: That is true. Sometimes you have to be blunt. We have done complete home rebuilds where the right call was to start over. The most recent one was in Monona. The homeowner really wanted to stay there, and when I first heard about it, I thought every house is worth something. Then I walked it and understood immediately. It was probably a catalog house originally, with flimsy framing, a bad foundation, outdated systems, bad windows, bad siding—the whole thing. There just was not much worth investing in. But the lot was beautiful, about an acre, deep, in a great location not far off the lake. So that was a perfect candidate. The old house was gone in a day, the foundation was dug the next day, and we were off to the races. Host: That also applies on a smaller scale. Sometimes homeowners want to preserve something like cabinets because they look good on the surface, but a good contractor can tell whether they are actually worth saving. Mike: Exactly. Sometimes I look at cabinets that appear beautiful on the face, but what is behind them is swelling particleboard that has lost its shape. That is not worth putting more money into. On the other hand, once in a while we see cabinets that really are worth saving. Maybe the layout still works and the construction is good, but the finish is dated. In that case, we can repaint or refurbish them and get a great result. It is about honest evaluation. Host: That reminds me of the house you looked at where the homeowners wanted a kitchen remodel, but the real emergency was a huge ice dam problem. Mike: Yes, that was in Middleton. The first time I pulled up there, I swear there was a foot-thick ice dam across the front of the house. They were asking me to look at their kitchen, and I was thinking, “You really need to deal with the ice dam first.” They were first-time homeowners and just did not know. When I walked inside, there was water on the inside walls. It was bad. We recommended they slow down and fix the roof, insulation, and ventilation issues first. Later we did the kitchen and then bathrooms and some exterior work. That is exactly the kind of honest conversation a homeowner needs. Host: And that is one of the reasons it matters to trust your builder. It would be easy for someone to say, “Sure, let’s do the kitchen,” but that would not be the right advice. Mike: Exactly. If your kid had a broken leg and wanted to paint it, you would say, “No, that is crazy. We have to fix the broken leg first.” Houses are not that different. Sometimes you have to solve the real structural or systems issue before you get to the pretty finishes. Host: That same principle applies to fixtures and products too. Sometimes people see a cool-looking sink or faucet online and assume it must be a good choice because it looks good in a photo. Mike: Right, and sinks and faucets are two different conversations. Fancy sinks are often coming from smaller makers and can be fine. Faucets are trickier. There is a huge amount of plumbing hardware coming from manufacturers we know less about, and it is hard to sort out what is actually good. We tend to stick with Kohler a lot because I know what I am getting and they stand behind their products. Some cheaper manufacturers copy the look of the high-end stuff very quickly, and it is tempting because it costs less, but I do not want to put in something I am going to worry about later. The worst phone call for a remodeler is water—my roof is leaking, something failed, and now there is damage. The second worst is electrical. So I tend to be very careful about those products. Host: And with a brand like Kohler, there is also the long-term service side of it. If you need a replacement part years later, you can usually find it. Mike: Exactly. Even if a fixture is older, there is usually a catalog or system for figuring out what part you need. Kohler does a good job of standardizing things. And when we have had problems—maybe with a specialty finish that wore poorly—they have come back with a fix. That matters. If you buy something random off a clearance rack, there is less support. Host: Before we wrap up, there is one other part of remodeling that people sometimes overlook until the work starts, and that is managing pets, kids, and even neighbors. Mike: Absolutely. We want to separate the construction zone from the family living zone as much as we can, but pets are very good at getting around that. A plastic dust wall might contain ninety percent of the dust, but your little dog might still squeeze right under it. Our people want to please homeowners, so sometimes they will let a dog out or try to be helpful, but we are also thinking about safety. We do not want somebody backing up with a tool and stepping on a pet. The same thing goes for small kids. Kids are drawn to toolboxes. It is very easy for a child to grab something dangerous like a chisel. Those are conversations we want to have during design so homeowners have a plan. Host: And then there are the neighbors too. Mike: Definitely. I put neighbors right in that same category. We just finished that downtown job on Dayton Street, and I am sure the neighbors got sick of us. There was no parking, weird street rules, trucks, materials, noise—just a lot going on. I always encourage homeowners to talk to their immediate neighbors and give them a heads-up. Explain that it will probably be noisy, there will be people coming and going, and there may be some inconvenience for a while. It is much better when those conversations happen up front. Host: It really all comes back to the same themes: planning, communication, honesty, and making decisions that are going to hold up over time. Mike: Exactly. That is how you get the best result.