Kitchen Remodeling, Pantries, Induction Cooktops, and Smart Design
Host:
This is the Home Remodeling Show, brought to you by Edge Construction. You can learn more online at EdgeConstructionCompany.com. That is Edge Construction Company dot com, all one word.
It is a great website, by the way, to learn more about Edge Construction. They have a great section with some of their recent work, plus links to Facebook, Pinterest, and Houzz, where you can see a huge portfolio of the work they have been doing.
If you are thinking about remodeling, pick up the phone and give them a call at 608-636-3343. That number again is 636-EDGE.
Joining us this morning in studio is the owner of Edge Construction, Mr. Mike Twohig. Mike, how are you doing this week?
Mike:
Great, Sean. It is good to see you.
Host:
For folks who do not know, before the show we usually drink a little coffee and talk about the world around us. This week, we are going to talk kitchens.
Some of this came up as a joke before the program, but I was half serious. We have talked in the past about bathrooms without bathtubs, which has become more common, though most houses still have at least one bathtub somewhere. I jokingly asked you: do you ever see a house without a kitchen?
Have you ever seen a house without a kitchen? I mean, I joke, because I do not cook at all. I married the best cook in the world, thank God. But my house would have a toaster, maybe a dish or two, and some paper plates.
Mike:
I saw something on Reddit the other day. Somebody called it a man’s dream home. I do not know if it was someone’s office or what, but it was in a high-rise, and at one end of the room there was a bed, a desk, an office chair, and a TV.
Host:
And for a guy, you think, “Hey, that might work.”
Mike:
My son Nick is a single guy. He owns his house in Cambridge, and he is one of the best cooks I know. He has really developed that skill.
Host:
How many kids do you have again?
Mike:
We have seven kids.
Host:
Just saying.
Mike:
They are big eaters. They are like locusts when they come to our house. If there is anything edible, it is gone. So we have a great kitchen, thank God. My wife, Christy, cooks it up.
Host:
You recently redid your kitchen. How much went into your personal project?
Mike:
I spent a year or so on it. It was quite a project, but now we have room for everybody. It has worked out great.
Host:
That gives us a good starting point for talking about kitchen remodeling. A lot of folks think, “The kids will move away, and we will downsize.” But you had to go the other direction.
Mike:
For about ten years, I thought we could live in half the size of our house. We have lived in the same farmhouse for 35 years. It had one bathroom and no garage. It worked out great, and I had remodeled it over the years.
But after your kids leave and then they start multiplying, things change. Christmas, Easter, weekends — all of that changes the way the house is used.
Host:
That is a really good way to start the conversation about kitchen remodeling. Kitchens, dining rooms, and those types of spaces have come a long way in terms of usability. They have become the heart and center of a home.
If you compare kitchens today to even 20 years ago, the kitchen really is the place, isn’t it?
Mike:
It is. Are you a cook, Sean?
Host:
I know how to use an air fryer. I can work the microwave. I can also smoke meat. I have a smoker.
Mike:
So you are dipping your toe in.
Most people, if you asked them what they would want in a kitchen if they had unlimited space and unlimited money, would say they want the double oven, the big fridge, the walk-in pantry, natural light, windows, and a big island.
You want a place to congregate, plenty of counter space, good organizational features, and good ventilation. You want all of those items.
The interesting thing is that list does not really change when you have a smaller house and a real budget. Nobody I know has unlimited space or unlimited money. So you start asking: how do we get these elements in there and make them look natural?
You do not want the kitchen to look like things were forced in just to include everything. Not every house can accommodate everything, so sometimes you have to pick and choose. But those features are on almost everybody’s list.
It is common for homeowners to say, “In a perfect world, I want these things, but I do not see how they can work here. I do not think we have enough space. Maybe if we did something different.”
That is where they are looking for help on the design side.
A designer can get into CAD and create a top-down view. It is like taking the roof off and looking at the space from 50 feet up. Then you can start moving those elements around and see how they fit.
Host:
The design side of a kitchen remodel — or any remodeling project — is so important.
We were talking earlier about farmhouses. Farmhouses have a beautiful, distinct look and feel. Part of what people love about them is that kitchen feel. With a remodel, you want modern amenities and modern space, but you do not want it to look out of place.
I know the team at Edge Construction works hard to make sure the design fits the house.
Mike:
Absolutely. I do not want to take anything away from the great tradespeople who work in our company or anyone else’s. They know their job and are great at what they do.
But the tradespeople are taking the print and producing the end product. For a homeowner, that should almost be a given. If we come up with a good plan, the expectation is that we can build it and create that picture.
Getting the right picture has become the real challenge. There are so many tools now, including CAD programs, that help people envision what something is going to look like.
A kitchen remodel is always a lot of money. Whether it is $30,000, $50,000, or more, it is still a lot of money. You want to be thoughtful. You do not want to be wasteful. You want to choose good products.
But it is not just about good products. If you have a poor design with good products, somebody will eventually want to throw those good products away or rearrange them. So I feel like the best time spent in the process is on design. Having great designers is incredibly important.
Host:
We talk about tradesmen, craftsmen, carpenters, and people who really achieve a high level. You think of older houses where the person who built it clearly knew what they were doing. The people at Edge Construction fit that mold. They really know how to build and build well.
But the design side has not always had the same emphasis. Some of that was out of necessity, and some of it was simply because people did not have CAD and other tools. It seems like in the last few decades, design has really accelerated and caught up with the high-end carpentry and trades.
Mike:
Right. You also need design to take advantage of all the new products that are available.
In our office, we found an old box of projects I did probably 25 years ago or more. Most of them were on graph paper with a pencil and ruler. I was just drawing things out.
Our designers now look at that and think, “How did you build anything?”
Back then, we had a fraction of the options. Even new houses from that era often had similar characteristics. It was not like someone reinvented the project every time they built a new house. It was usually a variation of a plan people already knew.
Homeowners may have been less demanding then, too. They could not just go on Houzz and say, “How do I get this pantry into my existing plan?” Sometimes the existing plan is not going to work anymore. Maybe the house needs to be redesigned around getting those other elements in.
My own house changed when my wife decided she wanted a walk-in pantry and a walk-in laundry. A lot of houses were not designed for that, and even many new houses are not designed for that. It is good to go through that design process.
Host:
We will talk more about the popularity of pantries, because they are obviously not new. A lot of us remember our grandparents having pantries, and that was where all the good stuff was.
But before that, I wanted to ask about the way design has progressed. You talked about how you used to do things on graph paper, and now there are modern tools and building techniques. There have been huge improvements, but there are also some modern things where you wonder whether they are really an improvement or just a cost savings.
You see this out in the field. Not all modernization is ultimately for the better.
Mike:
That is true. On the design side, we are constantly filtering products and options for quality. We do not jump onto anything really fast.
I recently came back from the National Builder Show, and I am always looking for products that popped up three years ago to see if they are still around. A lot of times, 80 percent of the products — even ones I thought were good ideas — are not there anymore.
Then I think, “I am glad we did not jump on that, because now we would be warranting a product we cannot even get anymore.” That is not a position I want to be in.
When design was simpler and there were fewer options, I think it was easier for people to envision what they were going to get. Now, when you add all these options and finishes, the design tools become even more important.
In our showroom, my favorite spot is where projects get designed. We have shelves on the back wall, and each project has its own section. You can see what the homeowner has picked out: flooring choices, cabinet colors, cabinet door styles, countertops, and so on.
You can see how it is all coming together. That helps the homeowner envision the project because they can hold the materials in their hands. When those finishes can also be imported into the design, they start to get a feel for what the finished space will look like. That makes a big difference.
We have had people say, “I can figure out what I want to do.” What I think they are really saying is, “I do not know if I want to pay for a designer.”
In our company, design is kind of baked in. We do a lot of the work in-house, and that helps us stay competitive. That is how we provide the design service and still keep up with market forces.
You do not want to turn down that design help, because designers are also filtering the options. Something may look good on Houzz or Pinterest, but maybe it has not been vetted yet. Can we get it? Does it fit the budget? Will it last? Will the company still be around? Those questions need to be asked during the design process.
Host:
Those questions are being asked, and they have been asked for years. That is the other thing about experience.
Most homeowners may remodel their kitchen once during the time they live in a home. Your designers, carpenters, and everyone at Edge Construction are working on projects every day of the week.
Mike:
Exactly. The other thing people do not always see is that we are not just thinking about cabinets and countertops. We are thinking about what is behind the wall.
When we pull off drywall or plaster, what are we most likely going to find? How are we going to fix it? We do not want somebody to have to do this again for another 50 years, so we want to leave everything better than we found it.
It would be wasteful to only sugarcoat what people can see with their eyes.
Host:
That is a great perspective. As homeowners, we tend to think only about what we can see. As a builder, you are also thinking about what we cannot see.
Sometimes those hidden things can cause major problems. It reminds me of old fix-up shows on cable, where there was a lot of surface work but not much attention paid to the things that really matter.
Do you still encounter houses that were flipped with superficial remodeling work?
Mike:
Yes. At one point I thought I would eventually work my way out of that in my career, but now I am convinced I will be dealing with those things until the day I stop working.
There has been a lot of poor work. I do not know if it is always outright dishonesty, though sometimes it is. Sometimes it was just a business model: make it look like things were done, make it look freshened up, and move on.
Unfortunately, it often hit the lower end of the market. First-time homebuyers, who know the least about owning a house, come in thinking, “At least I do not have to touch this part of the house.” Then later they find out they have to go backward before they can go forward.
And they paid for that. I feel terrible for them. I hate telling them the news sometimes, but I am not going to sugarcoat it. I want to give them an honest assessment.
The flipping trend was one of the worst things for houses. I know a lot of people made good money doing it, but generally, the work done on those houses was terrible.
Host:
For younger listeners who may be looking for their first house, we always hear the expression “good bones.” Is that a true adage? When people are looking to buy, are the things they cannot see often more important than the things they can see?
Mike:
Yes. If one of my kids were looking for a house, I would be thinking about those things.
If it needs new windows or new siding, that is kind of like tires on a truck. You have to do that occasionally. Even kitchens and similar things can be updated.
But if I am looking at your roof, I am not just looking at the shingles. I am also looking to see whether it was under-engineered when it was built. Sometimes roofs have big slopes in them, and that can indicate problems. Maybe they did not handle snow load well, and things moved around too much.
I am also looking at foundations to see if there is cracking or evidence of water. Mechanically, we are looking at the panel. Every once in a while, we still see an electrical panel from 1965. We do this work, so we know when we see one that the breakers have not been made since the 1970s, and that panel needs to come out.
A big thing I look for around here is evidence of ice damming. If I walk into your living room and see areas of the ceiling that have been painted a few times, I am going to ask what happened there. It may be ice damming that was never dealt with.
When was the house re-roofed? When was the ceiling insulated? Homeowners often want to spend money on the things they can see first. They are not usually thinking, “I want to spend my first dollars insulating my attic so I do not have ice damming.” Nobody can see that, but it makes a big difference in the life of the house.
Host:
When I was younger, with my first cars, I worried less about oil changes and more about having a good stereo. It is a similar idea. You want to make sure the oil is changed and the brakes work before worrying about the stereo.
We are talking this morning with Mike Twohig, owner of Edge Construction, about kitchen remodels. We will talk about some of the really cool features that are popular in kitchens, and what you should be thinking about before you start a kitchen remodel.
In the meantime, visit EdgeConstructionCompany.com. That is Edge Construction Company dot com. You can also call 608-636-3343. That number again is 636-EDGE.
Edge Construction brings you the Home Remodeling Show right here on 1310 WIBA.
Host:
This is the Home Remodeling Show, brought to you by Edge Construction. You can find them online at EdgeConstructionCompany.com. That is all one word, Edge Construction Company dot com.
We are talking this morning with Mike Twohig about kitchen remodeling.
Earlier this week, I was doing a show with a realtor. One of the houses they had listed had a newly remodeled kitchen with an induction cooktop. I said, “My friend Mike Twohig at Edge Construction has been talking to me about induction cooktops and how they are becoming a great thing to have in kitchens.”
We are seeing more and more of those. Gas burners are still very popular, but induction cooktops have really become popular for a number of reasons. You are seeing more people say that is the route they want to go. Am I right?
Mike:
Yes, for a bunch of reasons.
If you talk to my wife about it, we have had induction for about a year. I think she is still a little irritated by it, though I have had trouble figuring out exactly why.
Part of it is that a lot of her old favorite pans do not work with induction, because the pan has to be magnetic. I do not know exactly how it all works, but you turn it on, hear a little hum, and the pan heats up in about three seconds. It is an incredibly efficient transfer of heat.
It sits on a glass top, but it does not really heat the glass. It heats the pan. Then the pan heats the glass. So you cannot necessarily pull the pan off and put your hand right on the surface, but if there is no pan on the burner and you turn it on, you will not feel anything unless you have a metal ring that holds a magnet.
Efficiency-wise, it is great. I do a little cooking. I might make an egg once in a while. What I like is that you can set it to a temperature, and it stays exactly at that temperature.
We had a glass cooktop range before, and it seemed to heat up, cool down, heat up, and cool down. This maintains the temperature, which makes sense to me.
A lot of great cooks still want gas because it gives them control. They can have heat when they want it. But with gas, you also have to vent more air out. It is basically like having several burners burning inside your house.
It is also a poor transfer of heat. The flame goes around the pan, and a lot of the heat does not go into the pan to cook the food. It goes away. So it is inefficient, and then you need a bigger hole in the house to pump air out.
With gas, you might need an eight-inch vent instead of a six-inch vent, which is a lot more air moving out of the house. Induction is a newer product I watched for several years at the shows. I kept seeing it gain traction, and I think it will keep getting better.
There is a little hum when it starts. I did not even notice it at first until someone pointed it out. But overall, to me, the positives seem to outweigh the negatives.
Host:
One of the cool things is that many homeowners may not even know induction is an option unless they are listening to this program or meeting with a designer.
That is part of the benefit of meeting with the team at Edge Construction. You can talk through these things: what type of cook are you, what do you want, what do you look for?
Are the great chefs all switching to induction? Maybe not quite yet.
Mike:
Not quite yet. A lot of times, we will still run gas even if the homeowner is not planning to use it. If they have one shot to get gas to that spot, they may want the option. If they end up hating induction or whatever else they put in, they can switch later, or a future owner can.
Host:
You used the word vent a couple of times. We often think about ventilation in a bathroom, but in a kitchen, having good ventilation and airflow is really important too.
Mike:
It is. There are also code issues involved.
If we go over 400 CFM — 400 cubic feet per minute — that we are removing with a fan, we have to upsize the duct going out of the house. It goes from six inches to eight inches, which I mentioned earlier.
If you have a gas stove, you have to get rid of those fumes, so ventilation becomes more important. There is also a tradeoff with noise.
You will probably hear me talking more over the next several years about air quality and sound in a house. People are starting to ask more about the overall experience in their home. Is there a way I do not have to hear the street? How can I avoid hearing someone on a different floor? Can we control sound issues?
People are also more concerned about the air they are breathing. These are good things. Overall comfort is what we should be thinking about, and there are innovative ways to get there now.
Host:
Some of that is driven by people working from home, too. If you are going to be home much of the day, you care more about quiet and air quality. Those things have always been important, but now people are more focused on the home environment.
Mike:
One of my sons had twins, and he joked that we should come up with a line of products for houses called “the quiet door” and “the quiet floor.” When you have twins, one of them is always waking up when someone is trying to sneak by.
Sound has become an issue. Overall comfort in the house matters.
When we insulate, I will often ask homeowners whether there are any cold areas of the house. In our house, for example, you can definitely feel certain windows or walls where you are absorbing cold from outside. If we have a chance to address those things while we are already in there, we will do it.
Host:
We are talking with Mike Twohig, owner of Edge Construction, about kitchen remodeling and all the great things they can do for you. Visit EdgeConstructionCompany.com, all one word, or call 608-636-3343. That number again is 636-EDGE.
What are some of the things people should think about before starting a kitchen remodel? What are the common reasons people come to Edge Construction and say, “Now is the time”?
Mike:
There are a couple of things.
A common driver used to be something like the flooring wearing out. Then that trickled into cabinets, countertops, and everything else.
Now I think design has become more important because people are spending more time in their kitchen when friends and relatives are around. It has become the common gathering space.
Maybe during COVID, people got into cooking more and noticed weaknesses in the design. Maybe the cabinets are falling apart. Whenever there is a recession or remodeling slows down, kitchens build up pent-up demand. Then all of a sudden, people say, “I cannot go another couple of years with this kitchen. We have to fix something.”
Sometimes the family grew. People are also staying in houses longer, and that drives a lot of kitchen remodeling.
Host:
Is the kitchen one of those spaces that people tend to put off until they really have to do it? Especially with cabinets, countertops, and flooring, do people wait until doors are falling off?
Mike:
Yes, I think a lot of times they do. Human nature is to get as much out of something as you can before spending the money.
But I also see people saying, “This is not about moving up to another house. We like it here, and we are going to stay. If we are going to remodel eventually, why do we not do it now and actually enjoy it?”
I think that is healthy for housing.
Host:
Great stuff. We are talking with Mike Twohig, owner of Edge Construction. Visit EdgeConstructionCompany.com or call 608-636-3343.
We will talk with Mike about the popularity of the pantry next, as the Home Remodeling Show with Edge Construction continues right here on 1310 WIBA.
Host:
This is the Home Remodeling Show, brought to you by Edge Construction. You can find them online at EdgeConstructionCompany.com. That is all one word, Edge Construction Company dot com. You can also call 608-636-3343. That number again is 636-EDGE.
We are talking this morning with Mike Twohig about kitchen remodeling, and we touched on pantries briefly. Pantries are obviously nothing new, but there seems to be a new emphasis on them and on what you are able to do with them.
If you visit EdgeConstructionCompany.com, you can see some of the kitchen remodels they are doing. Pantries are becoming more than a glorified closet. They are beautiful, functional spaces.
Let’s talk about that reprioritizing of the pantry.
Mike:
If you have the room and the inclination, we have done some amazing pantries that honestly get more attention than the kitchen.
I think people are fascinated by them. Some pantries are simply great utilitarian storage, which I appreciate. But others have open shelves, display areas, and cool containers for consumables. Everything is extremely organized, and they are beautiful.
There may be built-in cabinets, countertops, backsplash — the whole thing. Those are really something, and they are attractive in housing.
I think we will see more of that because people have a lot of stuff. When you organize a kitchen and use organizational tools inside cabinets, it does not always mean you can store more things. Usually, it means you may store fewer things, but you can actually see and get to them.
Sometimes you need another storage space where you can take advantage of that organization.
Host:
I was scrolling through your website, and I remember seeing a few pantries that really stood out. Some had frosted glass or the word “pantry” stenciled on the glass. It becomes a really beautiful design area.
Mike:
It does. If you have the space and it fits the project, the pantry can be a great area for design.
Host:
I also think of pantries as a place to store dry goods, but I have seen in some of your projects that people use them for countertop gadgets like mixers and other appliances. It is a perfect space for that too.
Mike:
It is. We did one last year that I am sure is on the website somewhere. It had barn doors off the kitchen. You walk through the barn doors into about a ten-foot-long pantry with countertops, backsplash, upper cabinets, open shelving — the whole thing.
That one had one added feature the homeowner may have been happiest with. We put an exhaust fan in there because when they use the crockpot, the smell can go through the whole house. Now they can put the roast in, shut the barn doors, turn on the fan, and the whole house does not smell like it in the morning.
It was a smart idea. It was the homeowner’s idea, not ours. After all the effort on the pantry, the fan may have been the biggest win.
Host:
With kitchen remodels, pantry features, and organization gadgets, do you see people thinking more specifically about how they use the kitchen?
We think about footprint and gathering space, but people also have specialized needs. Some people want a spot for kids to do homework while dinner is being prepared. Some people really cook. Others, like you and me, might be fine with a microwave and air fryer.
Do those conversations become common?
Mike:
Yes, they do. It ranges from very detailed planning to the Mike-and-Sean level.
We have done kitchens for engineers who put things into their own CAD program and figured out spacing for everything — soup to nuts, silverware, everything. They were very thoughtful about where each item would go.
We are on board with that. We can get the specs and tell them how much space they lose inside a drawer or cabinet.
Those bigger items you mentioned, like air fryers and mixers, can be large and heavy. They need to be planned for.
I probably tend to go with the flow a little more and think, “We will figure out where everything fits.” But my wife was very focused on getting it right the first time. She did not want to rely on me making changes later. She wanted to make the best plan up front.
Host:
You mentioned barn doors. Do we still do pocket doors? It seems like the pocket door was always used when there was not enough room for a swinging door. To me, as a layperson, a barn door seems like a beautiful pocket door that is not stuck in a wall. Am I seeing that correctly?
Mike:
They both have good points.
Our designers cringe anytime I talk about pocket doors. When you have put in thousands of pocket doors like I have, and like our company has, you also have had to fix them. That door is inside the wall, and it can be a different environment in there. Things can get sticky and not work right.
We have upgraded the hardware, and I have given up fighting it. The designers are going to design them in, and I will not complain about them as much. We have figured out how to defeat many of the problems.
Barn doors are very cool, but the problem is that you need wall space beside the opening. You cannot use that wall for artwork or something else.
You also probably do not want a barn door on a bathroom. It does not seal well. There is space around it. That is one door where you probably want a regular door or maybe a pocket door.
Host:
You mentioned improved hardware with pocket doors. Hardware in general for kitchens has gotten much better than it used to be, hasn’t it?
Mike:
It has. Homeowners have driven that. They are less likely to go to a big-box store and pick out something just to get by. They are being more thoughtful about hardware.
They want something that looks nice, feels more substantial, and is stronger. Maybe they have had experiences with cheaper products and do not want to do that again.
It is not just cabinet knobs and pulls. It is towel bars, kitchen fixtures, and everything you put your hands on every day. Those things have had to get better, tougher, stronger, and still look attractive.
Host:
One final thing I wanted to ask about: older houses never seem to have an outlet where you need one. Part of kitchen design is figuring out where appliances and devices will be used and where outlets need to go.
Mike:
Yes. Anything above the countertop requires thought. With the codes the way they are now, you have outlets almost everywhere.
Sometimes homeowners complain and ask why they have to put another outlet in a certain spot. Sometimes it does feel goofy, but the code requires outlets in specific areas.
It is easy to add outlets beyond the minimum, but harder to subtract them. So we usually have a very good electrical plan before we start building.
Host:
What about USB outlets and wireless charging? Are those being integrated into kitchens?
Mike:
Very much so. The progression has been good.
In my own house, I think we have three, four, or five USB outlets. There are places in a kitchen where you cannot put them because they will not pass inspection, so we have to be thoughtful.
There are also places where I think you cannot put one above a bathroom counter, which is frustrating because it would be very handy, but I understand the concern about water.
I like USB outlets a lot. Usually, they are smart outlets. Once your device is charged, they stop pushing electricity into it, which can help avoid battery damage or overheating. They are often a better charger than the one that comes with the product.
Host:
Are you seeing wireless charging integrated too?
Mike:
We now offer it. I talked about this a couple of years ago. You can route out a portion of the granite or quartz countertop and integrate a charger into the countertop. Then you can lay your phone, earbuds, iPad, or anything compatible on top, and it charges through the countertop.
The challenge, like with a lot of new technology, is that it is expensive at the beginning. It may be $1,500 or more. But it is very cool, especially if you are into technology. We have had a couple of those projects. The countertop people route it out and install it, and they have to be trained on it. Now we are up to speed and offering that.
It is a fun feature. If nothing else, it is a cool party trick.
Host:
If you have been thinking about a kitchen remodel or any type of remodeling, the crew at Edge Construction would love to talk with you. Pick up the phone and give them a call at 608-636-3343. That number again is 636-EDGE.
Edge Construction brings you the Home Remodeling Show right here on 1310 WIBA.