Host: Joining us this morning from Edge Construction is Mike. Mike, how are you doing? Mike: Great, Sean. Host: It’s a good thing you and I can’t put every conversation on the air. Mike: No, probably not. Host: This week we’re talking about whole-floor and whole-home remodeling. One thing you mentioned that I don’t think we’ve really explored before is how a kitchen remodel often starts turning into something bigger. People aren’t just redoing the kitchen anymore. They’re bringing in adjacent spaces too, aren’t they? Mike: They are, and I think it’s a really healthy thing. In the past, a kitchen remodel was sometimes more of a stopgap. The tires were bald, so to speak, and you just did enough to get by. A lot of that mindset probably came from the TV world too—flip shows, quick remodels, fast makeovers. But for homeowners, it makes a lot of sense to start thinking about the whole common area. That’s the kitchen, great room, entry, maybe a bathroom—those visible spaces where friends and family gather. It’s nice when those spaces have some continuity instead of feeling pieced together. Host: And those nearby rooms are often a little simpler than the kitchen itself. There’s no sink, no stove, no big appliances, no complicated electrical demands. So if you’re already doing the kitchen, it seems like a perfect time to improve the overall flow too. Mike: Exactly. But that also raises the question of where you stop. If money fell from heaven, sure, you’d fix everything. But homeowners have to decide how far they want to go. From our side, I like to get the full wish list on the table. Let’s talk about the dining room, the great room, the adjacent spaces. In houses that are twenty years old or older, I always say we’re trying to get that kitchen to join the rest of the house. So we look at how it behaves with the rooms around it. Maybe we open a wall to the dining room. Maybe the homeowner decides the dining room isn’t as valuable as it once was and would rather have a larger island or a pantry. Those are very common tradeoffs now. Host: The pantry piece seems huge too. If you ask almost anyone what they need more of, it’s usually storage. Older homes especially weren’t always designed with good pantry space. Mike: That’s exactly right. A pantry can be anything from a three-foot reach-in closet to a really beautiful walk-in space. Even a small one can be extremely valuable. We’ve done some great walk-in pantries that are fun for the designers and the carpenters because we get to do things we’re not doing every day. I’m thinking of one where we took down the wall between the kitchen and dining room, expanded the kitchen, and created a very nice walk-in pantry. We used butcher block for shelves in there, and with a little sanding and finishing, it looked fantastic. Host: And I’m guessing once the designers start exploring those possibilities, it’s probably hard for them not to want to do more. Mike: Of course. But there are logical stopping points, and there’s a budget to respect. That said, there really is some economy of scale. If the kitchen is the main project and we’re already there doing drywall, painting, electrical, and finish work, those secondary projects usually come at a discount compared to doing them later as separate jobs. We’ve tried to dial it in, and those added spaces can often be done for twenty-five to thirty percent less while we’re already there. Host: And that makes sense, especially with the electrical side. A kitchen today may need several new circuits, but a dining room or powder room update is usually a lot simpler. Mike: Exactly. In a kitchen from the eighties, we may be bringing in three or four brand-new circuits from the panel because the code and the demands have changed so much. A dining room is different. We can usually use what’s there, upgrade the lighting, add LEDs, and make a big improvement without nearly the same level of work. Host: You also mentioned something interesting earlier, which is that sometimes the main project may be one room, but while you’re there, you notice something else that really needs attention. Mike: Absolutely. Maybe the bathroom is the main project, but as we walk through the house, we notice the kitchen electrical is outdated or in rough shape. Even if it’s not the star of the show, sometimes it makes sense to at least price that work while we’re there. Houses have changed, how people use power has changed, and the code has changed. Years ago people were much more casual about electrical work. Now it’s a different world, and for good reason. Host: One thing you and I joked about is that remodeling priorities can be a little like being a teenager with an old car that barely starts, but somehow it has a great stereo system. Mike: Exactly. But with a house, those priorities really matter. It’s a big investment, and you want to make sure the important systems are protected while still making the home more enjoyable. Host: When we talk about whole-home remodeling, what usually triggers that kind of project? I would assume it’s often not just that countertops are ugly. It’s more like things have been put off for too long, or maybe an appliance fails and suddenly the whole kitchen has to be reconsidered. Mike: Appliances definitely drive a lot of remodeling decisions. I remember years ago when counter-depth refrigerators came out. We were working on a lot of smaller houses downtown, and those appliances started pushing design in new directions. These days, most refrigerators are basically normalized around standard sizes, so we design for them. But appliances still drive decisions. And years ago, a lot of people had houses where the appliances didn’t even match—different brands, different colors, whatever still worked. Now people care a lot more about cohesion. Host: We all had that one dishwasher or appliance that somehow refused to die. Mike: Absolutely. We had one of those ourselves. But eventually you move on. Flooring is another big trigger. We went through decades where sheet vinyl was everywhere, and when it looked bad, people often just put another layer over the top. So now we still run into houses with an inch and a quarter of old flooring layered on top of itself. That used to be pretty common. One of the good trends in remodeling is moving away from products that only last ten years and toward things that are built to last. Host: And sometimes you peel all that back and find beautiful wood floors hiding underneath. Mike: Exactly. And that ties into a broader trend we’ve seen in the last eight or ten years. On the new-construction side and the remodeling side, people are more willing to have a slightly smaller home if it means using better materials. Real wood floors, real stone, better cabinetry, more natural products. Those things look better, feel better, and last longer. If you care about sustainability, solid wood floors are about as green as it gets. We’re uncovering one-hundred-year-old floors, restoring them, and they may have another hundred years left in them. That’s incredible. Host: You’ve also talked before about how frustrating it is when products are made to fail. Mike: I do have a problem with that. I don’t love the idea that appliances are expected to last ten years. I’d personally take fewer computer chips in my refrigerator if it meant it lasted another five years. The same thing applies to windows and other products. If we’re remodeling a house and making a bigger kitchen window, we’ll often recommend fiberglass instead of vinyl. It costs more, but it’s more stable, more durable, and will probably last twice as long. To me, that’s the better long-term choice. Host: Do you think part of what’s driving these larger remodels is simply that people are staying in their homes longer and want to do a better job because they plan to live there for a long time? Mike: Absolutely. Homeowners are much more willing to invest in quality if they think they’re staying. Years ago, especially around the mid-2000s, people weren’t always planning to stay in a house very long, so there were more band-aid fixes and shortcut choices. Now it feels like people are more interested in comfort, quality, and designing a house to really fit how they want to live. That’s a very healthy shift. Host: And it feels like people aren’t always chasing the next bigger house anymore. Sometimes they just want this house to feel right. Mike: Exactly. It’s become less about climbing the ladder to the next bigger place and more about making the current home feel comfortable, personal, and well designed. The options available now for better products and better combinations of materials have made that much easier. Host: As people think about these bigger projects, there’s also a much longer timeline involved. This isn’t something where you decide on a Friday and start on Monday. Mike: No, not at all. On a typical main-floor or whole-home remodel, it’s not unusual to spend four, five, or six months in design. People sometimes look surprised when I say that, but we’re not really the ones setting the pace. The homeowner does. If someone comes in already knowing exactly what they want and they’re incredibly decisive, it can move faster. But most people need reaction time. We give them preliminary designs, they take them home, think about them, sit with them for a few days, and then they come back with revisions. That’s a good thing. Better decisions get made when people have enough time to think. Host: And it probably feels different once you’re actually in the process. I imagine homeowners begin to appreciate that time instead of feeling rushed. Mike: They do. If you try to force it, people tend to make choices they regret. It’s better for everyone when the process follows its natural course. And on the construction side, it’s funny how often a project takes about as long to build as it did to design. A good rough number for a whole-house remodel is about six months, depending on the size of the house, the age of the house, and whether we’re adding on or doing major structural work. Bigger houses take longer. Older houses take longer. Additions and concrete work can extend things too. Host: And then there’s permitting, which is another whole layer on bigger projects. Mike: It really has become more challenging and more time-consuming, especially in the last couple of years. In bigger municipalities like Madison, permits go through a formal plan review, and the person reviewing the plans isn’t always the same person who comes out to inspect the work. That can create more questions and more back-and-forth. In smaller communities, the process is often more direct and relationship-based. We can call the inspector, talk things through, and move a little faster. But lately we’ve had some permits that took six months to get, and that can be very frustrating. Once we get rolling, things usually go well. It’s getting through that front-end process that can sometimes be tough. Host: And that’s exactly why working with somebody who understands that system matters. The last thing you want is to build something significant and then find out you’ve got to move a wall because it wasn’t handled correctly. Mike: Exactly. That’s why planning, drawings, permits, and relationships matter so much on these larger projects. Host: We also ended up talking a little bit about garages, because when people start thinking bigger, it seems like garage additions or workshop spaces come up pretty often too. Mike: They do. We had one project on Lake Monona where we removed a very small attached one-car garage from a beautiful old brick house and ended up creating a two-car garage in the back with enough room for several cars and even a car stacker. That took some real engineering because we had height restrictions from the city, but we made it work. Garage additions and expansions are very common conversations now because people have hobbies, tools, storage needs, and projects they want space for. Host: And sometimes that means a true workshop or even a full-blown man cave. Mike: Absolutely. We’ve definitely done those. We’ll help create the shell and make it a great blank slate, and sometimes we customize it quite a bit. We did one where the homeowner installed a golf simulator, and we added custom cabinets for tools and storage. My favorite part, though, was the hot dog roller he brought in—like something straight out of a gas station. Host: That sounds amazing. Mike: It was pretty great. Host: The big takeaway from all of this seems to be that when homeowners step back and think bigger, they often end up with a better, more cohesive result. Mike: That’s exactly right. When you’re already investing in a kitchen or another major space, it often makes sense to look at the surrounding rooms, the systems, the materials, and the long-term plan. That’s how you end up with a house that not only looks better, but works better and lasts longer.