Kitchen Remodeling Trends: Cabinets, Pantries, Appliances, and Smart Features
Host:
This is the Home Remodeling Show, brought to you by Edge Construction. You can find them online at EdgeConstructionCompany.com. That is all one word, Edge Construction Company dot com.
It is a great website, by the way. If you have not had a chance to stop by, it is always being updated. EdgeConstructionCompany.com also has links to Pinterest, Facebook, and Houzz.
Speaking of always updating projects, Edge Construction’s Houzz link is absolutely phenomenal. That is Houzz, H-O-U-Z-Z, and of course, you can get to it right from EdgeConstructionCompany.com.
The telephone number for Edge Construction is 608-636-3343. That is easy to remember: 636-EDGE.
Joining us in studio this morning is the owner of Edge Construction, Mike Twohig. Mike, how have you been?
Mike:
Great, Sean. It is good to see you.
Host:
Great to talk with you.
We are going to talk kitchens, kitchen trends, and things to know about kitchens.
When you started in construction, we have talked about kitchens and how they are used these days. Were kitchens used the same way back then and maybe we just did not identify it, or did people gather in different areas?
What is the history there?
Mike:
I started around 1990, and at that time we thought we had everything figured out. Houses were starting to open up with a few fewer walls downstairs.
Back then, we built a house, trimmed the house, did the floors, and kind of did it all. Then at the end of the job, we put in the cabinets.
I remember thinking about breakfast bars. You remember the breakfast bars?
Host:
Yes.
Mike:
It was kind of a peninsula, but it had a high part. We thought that was something you would never have to change. Now a couple of other people could sort of be in the kitchen with whoever was doing the cooking. Maybe the kids could do homework up there.
It was kind of the start of things.
We still built soffits then. I have had a lot of people ask me, “What is the purpose of a soffit?” I always say I do not know. We would get to the end of framing the house, and somebody would say, “Oh, we have to build the soffits.” So we built the soffits, but we never really had any idea why.
I think it was to save builders from buying an extra foot of cabinet every year.
Host:
As we talk about taking soffits out, I know we have not touched on soffits for a while.
You mentioned that it is kind of wasted space, but sometimes there were things running through there. The space may not have justified the use, but there were sometimes things going on in there.
Mike:
Yes.
As a remodeler, when your plan is to take those soffits out, it is not like you can see inside them. You are hoping and praying there is nothing running through there. You really hope there is not a plumbing pipe, wiring, or something else.
I remember the first kitchen I remodeled. I think it was in Stoughton. I had to take the soffits out, and sure enough, there was a plumbing stack — a big four-inch pipe — that came out, elbowed into the soffit, and went out through the roof.
I thought, “What do I do?”
Luckily, the plumber talked me through it, and it was not as big a deal as I thought.
It is somewhat rare that we find things in soffits. Maybe 10 percent of the time when we tear them out, we find something.
But I probably have some pictures on my phone of nightmare scenarios where electricians used the soffit as a chase to run wires upstairs. In our world, a home run means a wire from the end user — say an outlet in a bathroom that needs to be on a dedicated circuit — all the way back to your panel or breaker box.
When you find a home run where it is inconvenient or where it is not supposed to be, that means you are disconnecting one end or the other and refeeding those wires. It can create some hassle, but nothing we are not used to.
Host:
The update or replacement for soffits seems to be a couple of solutions. You can get rid of the soffits and either have nice thin cabinets above, or taller cabinets, which seem like a much better use of space. They look better too, in my opinion.
Mike:
I think it is a really nice finished look.
The majority of people now say they do not want a shorter cabinet where dust collects on top. They do not want to feel like they have to clean that area.
I think we have also moved past the time when people displayed things above the cabinets. I remember it being popular to put an old coffee grinder, antiques, or glassware up there. Some of that stuff is cool.
We have done small farmhouses with ten-foot ceilings, and we are not going to put cabinets all the way up to ten feet. That would be ridiculous. But you can still do some things up there, and it is a nice look without the soffit.
From a purely construction standpoint, I remember many times building those soffits, then putting the cabinets in and seeing the reveal. The reveal is the space from the crown of the cabinet to the corner bead on the soffit.
It might be one inch over here, a half inch over there, and three-quarters of an inch somewhere else. Then you are always asking, “Now what do we do?” Getting those soffits exactly right, figuring in the corner bead, and having the same reveal all the way around is a real pain.
Going all the way up with cabinets is a much better option.
You are not going to put your everyday cereal bowls up there, but I have always thought it would be cool to have one of those rolling library ladders that could go around the cabinets.
If anybody wants to do that, I know a guy.
Host:
That would be awesome.
When you mentioned fitting that in, my thinking was always that soffits were used to unify the height over the countertop. But it actually created its own level of angles and heights.
Mike:
Yeah. And if you want to modify things or change things, you are having to modify that soffit.
It is a historical thing now. Soffits are heading to the museum.
Of course, as soon as I say that, I do run into some people who say they really like the look. I am not taking a shot at you if you like that look. You cannot assume everything is one size fits all.
Host:
One thing I notice when I still see soffits in a kitchen that looks a little newer is that sometimes the soffits are painted. It looks like somebody did a partial kitchen upgrade and bought themselves a little extra time.
Let’s talk a little bit about that. As a homeowner, and as somebody who has a budget like everyone does, I can see why that might seem appealing. But it is really not as easy or as long-term effective as people may believe.
Mike:
I blame Martha Stewart.
I do not know who started this trend, but it can buy you some time.
We did one a couple of years ago in a very nice house in Bishops Bay, right on the lake. The cabinets did not quite fit the house. They were a weird stain — or maybe not weird, but an awkward color. But they were beautiful cabinets. Whoever initially put them in did not spare dollars. They were built really well and had great hardware.
The new homeowner bought the house, and we did a lot of remodeling there. We were there for many months. That was one of the times when painting the cabinets really made sense.
We had a third-party contractor who specialized in that because it is not just grabbing a paintbrush. That might buy you a few years, but it does not wear well.
We needed a longer-term solution. We did new countertops, a new backsplash, updated electrical, and had to make a few cabinets to change some things that did not make sense. I think we made half a dozen cabinets, matched the door styles to the old door style, painted all the old cabinets, and got the look everybody was after.
That made sense.
But a lot of times when homeowners ask whether painting or refacing cabinets is an option, most of the time the cabinets were something a builder put in 20 or 30 years ago. They have thin wall boxes and cheap hardware.
To do this right, it is not just painting everything. You probably need to replace the hardware. You might have doors that are falling apart or getting loose. By the time you do all that, you are not far away from buying new cabinets that are actually good cabinets and will last a long time.
Host:
I know you appreciate classic cars, and as you talk about paint, I think of car shows where you see a car from a distance and it looks really nice. Then you get closer and realize they just painted over the problems.
You see that in kitchens too.
Mike:
You do.
It can buy you time. When a kitchen is at the end of its life and the finish is starting to look rough, a homeowner can do a nice job painting and maybe get another five years. Maybe that puts you in a spot where you can remodel the kitchen later. It also probably gets you thinking about layout and other things.
There have been times when we tried to save cabinets, and I get suckered in once in a while. Once we start pulling them apart, it is almost always a mistake.
None of us wants to be wasteful. At first glance, you think, “These do not look too bad. They look salvageable.” But once you empty them out and pull them away from the wall, it becomes, “Oh boy, now we have a problem.”
By the way, on the car paint thing, not everyone can afford a great paint job. I do have a friend who painted his old truck with a roller. It looks that way, but it was what he could afford at the time. We still hassle him about that, as we should.
Host:
We are talking this morning with Mike Twohig, owner of Edge Construction. You can find them online at EdgeConstructionCompany.com. That is all one word, Edge Construction Company dot com.
We are talking with Mike about painted cabinets. Painted cabinets are obviously a very popular option for folks.
There is a significant difference between taking your existing cabinets and painting them at home versus getting cabinets that are manufactured and painted at the facility. I know you have talked about this. The procedures and control they have where those cabinets are built cannot really be replicated in the real world.
Mike:
It is pretty tough.
I have been to Great Northern Cabinet up in Rib Lake and watched their paint process. One cabinet will go through three or four stations. There is a process. It is not just spraying a cabinet, throwing it in a box, and sending it off.
The chemistry behind paint has changed a lot. There are products people combine that react together and produce the end product you want.
How would you replicate that in a garage or while painting cabinets in place? That is why I say you have to weigh these options. Are my cabinets in good enough shape to do this? Does it make sense?
For us, it makes quite a difference because with a really good paint process and a great product, those cabinets are more durable.
Those cabinets are going to come out of a truck, go through our shop, go out in a trailer to a job, get unboxed, moved around, and installed during a construction process. We try to protect them as much as we can.
If we get to the end and have to repaint in the field or do too much touch-up, a lot of that comes back to the process used when the cabinets were first painted.
Host:
You mentioned durability, and I had jotted that down.
When it comes to cabinets, I do not know that people fully appreciate what a quality cabinet endures. But when cabinets have the right finish, the right build, and the right everything, they perform really well.
If you have good cabinets, you tend to take that for granted, don’t you?
Mike:
You do.
The hard part for homeowners is that at first install, if you have a talented carpenter installing the cabinets, you can take a cheaper particleboard cabinet and install it well. Then you can put a great cabinet right next to it, and the homeowner may not be able to tell much difference right away.
It has to stand the test of time. Life has to happen to it a little bit.
We have seen suppliers where it feels like they are trying to cheapen up the operation. They are trying to save pennies here and there, and the finishes get thinner and thinner.
But at first glance, right out of the box and especially once installed, you may not be able to tell.
Have you ever bought a cheap piece of furniture from that place where everything comes flat?
Host:
Yes.
Mike:
What are your expectations? Are you thinking it will last 30 years?
Host:
If it makes it through the term of the lease, it is a blessing.
Mike:
Exactly.
By the same token, my grandma bought Ethan Allen dining room furniture. My mom has it now because it is still in great shape. You do not have to replace it.
The process that furniture went through was different than flat-pack furniture. It is the same with cabinets.
Host:
If there is a little hex key illustrating how to put the thing together, that tells you something.
And again, nothing against those products. They are affordable, and if you are a renter, sometimes that is perfect.
I have friends who are not carpenters but love watching videos of really talented furniture makers. There is a huge difference between machine-made and handmade.
That brings us to what you look at when it comes to a cabinet. To an untrained eye like mine, a lot of cabinets look pretty similar. If you bring me two new cabinets, I am probably going to say they both look very nice.
What do you look for when choosing a quality cabinet that is going to last?
Mike:
Before we worked with Great Northern, we had a local option for custom things, and we still use them once in a while. Our main supplier was Wellborn Forest, and nothing against them. Wellborn Forest is a very standard cabinet in how it is made.
They will make us a plywood box, which is important to me. They make it the way we like it, and it reaches the price point. It is still a good cabinet and still in our lineup.
But more and more, Great Northern Cabinet has taken over.
One reason is that when those cabinets show up, they look like Ethan Allen furniture. When you take them out of the box as a carpenter, you know it is different.
When I went and watched their manufacturing, I understood why. Probably because it is in northern Wisconsin, it is still a very hands-on process.
In the rest of the industry, a semi pulls up with plywood and another semi pulls up with hardwoods. They have lasers checking the straightness of things. A CNC machine lays things out. You are managing the building of the cabinet through a computer screen rather than hands-on.
When I went to Rib Lake, it took me about three days in a sleigh to get there, but there are about eight people who handle that cabinet before it goes in the box. Even how they put it in the box and protect it is part of the process.
There is a reason we are moving toward that cabinet.
Like anything, we are slow to move. I am a loyal guy. I do not want to jump and then have the same problem somewhere else. But over the few years we have used them, they have become the majority of what we do.
Host:
You mentioned packaging and how they are shipped. There has to be nothing worse than opening up a package and seeing damage, especially with something like cabinets.
Mike:
Right.
You mentioned the Amazon thing, where you open a big box and find another box inside, and that smaller box has just been bouncing around. It can be that way with cabinets.
When we open the Rib Lake boxes from Great Northern, it is very tight packaging. You might wonder why that matters.
If we buy another cabinet with looser packaging, when it is in the truck, the cardboard can rub the finish and change the look of it. There are times we have to do repairs because of that.
All in all, I should probably get a commission from Great Northern, but it has been a great move for us.
Host:
It sounds fantastic.
We are talking this morning with Mike Twohig, owner of Edge Construction. Check them out online, look at the pictures, and see the great projects at EdgeConstructionCompany.com.
Also check out the Houzz link from EdgeConstructionCompany.com to see more of their portfolio.
If you are thinking about remodeling, whether it is a kitchen, any room of the house, an addition, or maybe a new house, give them a call at 608-636-3343. That number is 636-EDGE.
More of the Home Remodeling Show with Edge Construction is next right here on 1310 WIBA.
Host:
This is the Home Remodeling Show, brought to you by Edge Construction. You can find them online at EdgeConstructionCompany.com. That is all one word, Edge Construction Company dot com.
Their telephone number is 608-636-3343. That number is 636-EDGE.
We are talking this week about kitchen remodeling trends, although in the first segment, we really just talked about cabinets. But for good reason. When you think about a kitchen, cabinets are such a big part of it.
That brings me to pantries.
I feel like pantries have made a comeback as more than just a place to put dry goods. I have seen some of the pantries you have done at Edge Construction, and some are nicer than the studio apartment I had in my twenties.
Is that becoming more common, really upgraded pantry space?
Mike:
It comes up in the conversation.
When we first started doing these, just having a smaller reach-in or walk-in pantry was kind of a big deal.
Now we have done some where we expanded a kitchen and created something almost like a kitchenette.
We have one in construction right now where the pantry will have two barn doors. You open them up, and the pantry is about ten feet long and five feet wide. It has a row of cabinets, a beverage fridge on one end, and a built-in microwave on the other.
The homeowners are saying they want their coffeemaker, toaster, and other things there. It is not a space where you would traditionally think it would be attractive, but this one will have nice backsplash tile, under-cabinet lighting, and probably one or two freestanding shelves. I think the jury is still out on whether we do a big mirror between the upper cabinets as an attractive design element.
It has really become a design element.
I am amazed when we build this stuff. I think, “Oh, this is really cool.” Then I see homeowners doing things like creative storage solutions. There is a lot of cool and attractive stuff out there for storing things you use every day in a kitchen.
When we do open shelves in a pantry, I think if it were Mike or Sean, we would just have cereal boxes piled up there. That is not what is going up there.
Host:
One thing I find very impressive about the pantries you are doing is that they are very functional. You mentioned the cereal boxes. For me, the temptation would be to make it a cluttered space.
But these pantries are so well designed that they do not feel cluttered or claustrophobic.
I remember one you did not too long ago with a really nice frosted glass door. It made the space. There were places to set blenders and other things. It was really good and clearly had a lot of thought and design behind it.
Mike:
There was one where we were able to incorporate an existing window into that space.
There is a marriage between designers and homeowners where they let ideas flow. Then you add in the CAD capabilities we have now, and you can design these things and really get a good feel for what they will look like and how they will feel.
Host:
There is obviously a tradeoff because it is space. But with CAD and design, you are able to maximize the usefulness of that space while still making it feel open and inviting.
Mike:
Some houses really lend themselves to it.
I am thinking about a plan that was really popular in the 1980s and 1990s. On the back side of the house, you would start in the corner with a dining room that was often too small to be really usable. Then the kitchen would be in the middle, and then there was another space with maybe a table and a patio door.
It was a very common design.
Several times, we have taken maybe half of that tiny dining room on the end of the house and made it the pantry space. Then we expanded the kitchen, got rid of some corners in the kitchen, eliminated corner cabinets, got the island in there, and suddenly the space really works.
Corners are the enemy. We do not like corners.
Host:
Anybody who has had a corner cabinet over the years knows that. What do you do with that area? If you need to hide something, you put it in the back of that corner cabinet.
Mike:
That is true.
Host:
We are talking this morning with Mike Twohig, owner of Edge Construction. The website is EdgeConstructionCompany.com. That is all one word, Edge Construction Company dot com.
Their telephone number is 608-636-3343. That number is 636-EDGE.
We are talking kitchen remodeling trends, and we will continue with more on kitchens next as the Home Remodeling Show with Edge Construction continues right here on 1310 WIBA.
Host:
This is the Home Remodeling Show, brought to you by Edge Construction. You can find them online at EdgeConstructionCompany.com. That is all one word, Edge Construction Company dot com.
I feel like the last two things we talked about — cabinets and pantries — could each easily be an entire show.
I do want to ask a little more about pantry space and the design that goes into it. Obviously, if you have a lot of room, pantries are something you can do. But even for smaller spaces, I have seen projects from Edge Construction where you make use of a nook or a space that is not a full walk-in pantry.
You build things for all different types of kitchens and spaces.
Mike:
It is really important to utilize any weird niche space.
You can never have enough of that kind of storage. A kitchen has to have all the cooking utensils, but where do you store everything else? Where do you store the cans, boxes, and extra stuff?
There are times when houses are not made for a pantry in or right next to the kitchen. Then that conversation with homeowners may lead to, “We have a closet over here. It is not right next to the kitchen, but can we build it out with shelves so we can have that kind of storage somewhere in the house?”
It is not that big a deal to walk over and get some of your things.
I think people are trying to get away from packing cabinets full to the top, where you cannot even see what is in there. The trend is toward more organization.
One byproduct is that maybe you cannot get quite as many things in those cabinets, but people seem to be okay with that if they can get storage somewhere else.
Host:
We started this conversation talking about soffits and getting rid of them. One thing you are often installing is floor-to-ceiling pantry areas or tall cabinets. That can really maximize usable space too, can’t it?
Mike:
Yes.
If we do not have a walk-in or reach-in pantry, we try to design something like that in because we know people need that kind of storage.
You can do quite a bit with what is called a utility cabinet or tall cabinet. It is very helpful to have one in your kitchen if possible.
On the rare occasion that we cannot get any of those things in, I am sorry. We do our best. But usually there is some creative option.
Host:
With cabinets, we talked about painted cabinets and other areas. Another trend is having a couple of feature cabinets with glass.
I have a picture in front of me with white cabinets, and then a couple of them have glass. Are those custom built, or are you able to order those from the manufacturer?
Mike:
We order them from the manufacturer, and it is called PFG.
Host:
Prefabricated glass?
Mike:
Prep for glass. Pretty close.
Prep for glass means the center section of that door is left open. If it is a painted white cabinet, they will paint the inside of the cabinet white. So if you put clear glass in there, you look inside and it looks finished.
Then we have our local glass company. I will give a plug to Todd at Mid-Wisconsin Glass. He does most of the glass in town and is great to work with.
It is literally simple. We pull the doors off, give them to Todd, and he brings them back with glass in them. He offers a ton of options: clear glass, smoky glass, rain glass, and probably 50 different types.
Host:
Textures too?
Mike:
Definitely.
Occasionally, we will do an LED rope light inside to give it background lighting. All of that can add to the look of the kitchen.
In the right spot, glass cabinets make a lot of sense.
Host:
They really do. Not all of them, but one or two here and there can be a great design feature.
Is Todd the same guy who does your shower glass?
Mike:
Yes.
Host:
By the way, when you are at EdgeConstructionCompany.com, check out the bathrooms too. They do really cool work at Edge Construction.
We are talking this morning with Mike Twohig of Edge Construction. The website is EdgeConstructionCompany.com. Their number is 608-636-3343. That number is 636-EDGE.
Let’s talk appliances.
We talked about smaller appliances, the things you plug in and want to store. What about the bigger ones that are always plugged in or connected?
Some people are really good at certain things in the kitchen and know exactly what types of appliances they want, whether it is an oven with multiple doors or something else.
Mike:
Yes. You can see double ovens or different combinations.
It can look like a double oven. We will put in the big cabinet for it, cut the opening, and make it ready. But one could be an oven and the other could be convection. Or one could be an oven with a built-in microwave on top.
One of the cool products out now is induction.
Host:
That is an amazing technology.
Mike:
My first view of it was a few years ago. When I go to the National Builder Show, if a company is showing appliances, they are not just going to show the appliance. They are going to have a chef there cooking on it.
Induction looks like a glass cooktop, and it is a glass cooktop, but the heat transfers through to anything magnetic. If you have a stainless steel wedding ring, I would not recommend putting your ring on it and turning the burner on because it will heat up very fast.
I do not have personal experience with it other than seeing it and talking to customers, but you can put a pot of water on the cooktop, and induction is supposed to get it boiling much faster because it is a very efficient transfer of energy.
I watched a chef at the show take a boiling pot of water off the cooktop and immediately put his hand on the glass. It was not hot because the energy only goes to the pan.
Compare that to pretty much anything else.
If you are cooking with gas, something like 70 percent of the heat gets lost into your house. That might be fine this time of year, but if it is 90 degrees in July, that is not so great. Plus, people are thinking more about indoor air quality, and gas appliances can make that more complicated.
Induction has jumped to another level. It is great to cook on, it is safer for kids, and the efficiency is a huge gain.
Host:
Are the big manufacturers getting on board with induction?
Mike:
They are.
All these appliances have levels. I am not sure how I feel about this, because when I plug in an appliance, I do not necessarily want to hook it up to my phone and an app.
But some people love it.
On the lower end, some of that is offered, and in the mid- to high-end range, you can have your oven warm up before you leave work so it is hot when you get home.
It can ask if you are going to make a pizza. There are built-in meat monitors and a bunch of cool stuff. We could go on and on about that.
Host:
With induction, does it require special wiring? Higher voltage or amperage?
I am saying that like I know what I am talking about.
Mike:
It really does not. It is a very normal hookup, just like you would do for any other appliance.
I really like where that technology has gone.
We built a very nice country house last summer, and the fridge we put in there sort of acts as the hub for all the other appliances. You can connect everything through an app, Wi-Fi, or Bluetooth and manage the appliances.
You can also be at the store and look into your fridge by camera to see if you are low on milk.
If you use all the technology available, it can be your running grocery list. Your kids can check in when they get home and send you a note. It is pretty amazing technology.
Host:
That is really cool stuff.
We are talking this week with Mike Twohig, owner of Edge Construction. The website is EdgeConstructionCompany.com. That is all one word, Edge Construction Company dot com.
If you are thinking about doing a kitchen remodel, they would love to talk with you. Pick up the phone and call 608-636-3343. That number is 636-EDGE.
Edge Construction brings you the Home Remodeling Show right here on 1310 WIBA.
Host:
This is the Home Remodeling Show, brought to you by Edge Construction. You can find them online at EdgeConstructionCompany.com. That is all one word, Edge Construction Company dot com.
Their telephone number is 608-636-3343. That number is 636-EDGE.
We are talking about some really cool trends for kitchens.
Mike, during the break, you told me about a type of technology I did not even know existed. Now that you have told me about it, I am amazed.
Let’s talk about some of the new things when it comes to countertops and electronics.
Mike:
We saw this at the Builder Show last year.
Your countertop manufacturer has to be on board, and two of our suppliers are now offering this to us. We just got the demo for it in our showroom, so now we can show how it works.
Basically, they router out an area underneath the countertop, maybe a one-foot area, and thin out the countertop in that spot. A unit mounts underneath and charges things.
I have seen it demonstrated. You can put your laptop there. You can put your phone there. No cords. You just set it on top.
Anything rechargeable — earbuds, phones, laptops — can be placed on top of the countertop in that area.
It also has cool features. It is not just an “X marks the spot” situation. You can slide your phone across, and when it gets over the right location, a little LED comes through the countertop to let you know where you are.
It is very cool stuff.
Host:
I am going to build a blender that just sits there and runs. No cords, just charge it.
We will start seeing those in the Edge trucks.
That is very cool.
As we talk with Mike, I consider myself pretty sharp on technology, but you do not know what you do not know. That is one of the fun things about working with Mike and the team at Edge Construction. You learn about things you may not have known were possible.
Do you have USB outlets in your house?
Mike:
I do.
Host:
How great are they?
Finding chargers is always a pain, and the bricks disappear.
Mike:
Most USB outlets are smart chargers, so they do not keep charging your phone once it is full.
If you plug into your car, a lot of times the phone gets hot because it keeps charging even though it is at 100 percent. Maybe that has gotten better with newer cars.
USB outlets are very handy and cleaner. You still have a cord, but you do not have to find the brick.
Host:
There are amazing things out there, and that is part of the journey and fun of working with Edge Construction. Not only can you get a beautiful kitchen, but you can get a very functional kitchen with the latest and greatest options available.
It is a great day to start that conversation. Pick up the phone and call 608-636-3343. That number is 636-EDGE.
Mike, we are going to have to talk about wireless countertops after the show today.
This is the Home Remodeling Show, brought to you by Edge Construction, right here on 1310 WIBA.